Why is Letsrun considered toxic?

"Hence the reason a topic like vaccinations has become so polarizing. Doing something for the good of the community in which you live should be a simple thing. But there is an increasing number of people who feel that their freedoms and rights outweigh those of the people they live and work with."

But mostly, they have just been inundated with lies coming from media that they frequent.

Democracies do need to protect the rights of minorities. Otherwise you can end up with things like women or people of color not being allowed to vote, or eat in certain restaurants, or own property, or control their own bodies. Even things like slavery.

Of course. No disagreement, and democracies do that just fine even if slowly. We don’t know of a way that is faster, fairer, or less exploitable.

Overriding democracy when convenient by presuming that half or even a third of the country is brainwashed and just needs to be educated by the rest is a bit much however. We only have the same tool — democracy — to determine who is brainwashed and whose stance eventually needs to change by how much.

For me, democracy is the top-level principle of governance and is uncompromisable. The challenges are those of implementation, like how do you ensure that every citizen gets an equal say in governance? How do you prevent democracy from being abused via misinformation, and so on. These are indeed difficult challenges. But simply dismissing the “others” as too stupid or brainwashed is rather Dunning-Kruegerian. If a nontrivial minority is crying out loud for something, listening to them patiently and engaging in respectful discourse with them until both come to a place of compromise and acceptance is the only peaceful way forward. Attacking them by calling them racist or neo-Nazis goes nowhere (though it’s fine to call someone a Nazi if they themselves identity with that label),

Armstronglivs wrote:

toxico wrote:

Sounds like you agree with exactly what I said but calling me a Nazi.

I agreed with nothing you said - but that obviously escaped you. You had suggested race could be a factor in determining intelligence. You are wrong . You aren't a Nazi but you are clearly poorly informed about their racially-based and completely refuted ideology.

Your claim that “There is no scientifically accepted evidence that there is a racial basis to intelligence” agrees with my severally state claims that there is no scientific evidence one way or the other, and it contradicts none of my claims.

I also stated that “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence or presence “. In your above post, you appear to disagree with that stance. So presumably you have a reference to scientific literature showing no correlation between race and intelligence.

You started off on page 6, arguing that it was legitimate to question whether Black people were of equal intelligence as "people of lighter skin tone", and that it would be a legitimate subject for scientific study. 2600 Bro pointed out that 'race science' is pseudoscientific cover for racism, and is not legitimate.

On page 7 you switched over to a moral relativist argument: "If half of even a third of the country is racist or toxic, then it just means that those traits are a common human norm, nothing to worry about." "Half the country can’t be evil. If it is, “evil” is not problematic." You claim Democracy!

I point out that minorities do need protection in democracies.

Now you generously (sarcasm) offer to listen to minorities and compromise if it is the ONLY way forward. "If a nontrivial minority is crying out loud for something, listening to them patiently and engaging in respectful discourse with them until both come to a place of compromise and acceptance is the only peaceful way forward." Except even then, by 'minority' you seem to mean "racist or neo-Nazis".

That's some disgusting toxic crap.

...like you are identifying 'racists and neo-Nazis' as persecuted minority groups.

It’s extremely obvious why this site is home to such discussions. We have gratuitously permissive and forward-thinking mods/founders, and we flock here regardless of vitriol because we enjoy the sport and care to hear the opinions and stories of others who share our interest

toxico wrote:

I also stated that “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence or presence “.

ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ok, now I've got it.

...and your first post was a reply to 'black runner' who wrote about how it was far beyond the lines of civility to bring this crap up with people of color, whether in person or on a message board. People here are telling you it is unacceptable. I would hope that if you brought this crap up with runners of ANY color in person, they would tell you to stuff it.

Some important corrections to your mischaracterization of my statements:

1) On p. 6, I did not advocate correlations between race and intelligence as “a legitimate subject of scientific study”. On contrary, I said “no one respectable [amongst academic elite] cares to know the answer” and I also personally advocated that stance by stating that “I prefer that world view” where e we don’t care to invest public funding in such efforts.

2) Did you notice that I allowed for people of color to potentially be smarter in my agnostic stance?

3) You appear to be calling a nontrivial fraction of the population “racist, neo-Nazi, persecuted”, not me.

I do stand by my statements on democracy and free and respectful discourse.

who d'unbanned wrote:

...and your first post was a reply to 'black runner' who wrote about how it was far beyond the lines of civility to bring this crap up with people of color, whether in person or on a message board. People here are telling you it is unacceptable. I would hope that if you brought this crap up with runners of ANY color in person, they would tell you to stuff it.

I bring it up all the time with people of color and we have intellectual discussions about it that are fun and respectful and highly informed of science. Perhaps you didn’t read my opening p. 6 post carefully enough to notice that I’m POC.

you, from page 6: "So why is it not possible that there are differences in traits considered more cerebral? The answer is that it is possible..." "We live in a society where certain types of questions are not investigated by the academic elite because no one respectable cares to know the answers to them..."

No it's not because 'no one respectable' cares to know the answers to them. It's because it is bogus.

toxico wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

I agreed with nothing you said - but that obviously escaped you. You had suggested race could be a factor in determining intelligence. You are wrong . You aren't a Nazi but you are clearly poorly informed about their racially-based and completely refuted ideology.

Your claim that “There is no scientifically accepted evidence that there is a racial basis to intelligence” agrees with my severally state claims that there is no scientific evidence one way or the other, and it contradicts none of my claims.

I also stated that “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence or presence “. In your above post, you appear to disagree with that stance. So presumably you have a reference to scientific literature showing no correlation between race and intelligence.

Understanding plain English is beyond you. To say there is no scientifically accepted evidence that race plays a part in intelligence is not the same as your claim there is no evidence "one way or the other". Race has been discounted as a factor in determining intelligence, it has not been left as an open question - except to the ignorant or the prejudiced. You appear to be one or the other.

toxico wrote:

who d'unbanned wrote:

...and your first post was a reply to 'black runner' who wrote about how it was far beyond the lines of civility to bring this crap up with people of color, whether in person or on a message board. People here are telling you it is unacceptable. I would hope that if you brought this crap up with runners of ANY color in person, they would tell you to stuff it.

I bring it up all the time with people of color and we have intellectual discussions about it that are fun and respectful and highly informed of science. Perhaps you didn’t read my opening p. 6 post carefully enough to notice that I’m POC.

“Bring it up” where “it” means honest conversations about race and intelligence correlation or lack thereof, not caricatures by “black runner” like “ hey, do you think black people are less intelligent and that’s why they commit more crimes?”

You are a bag of wind, with pretensions to intellect that you do not have.

Yes it’s not a determining factor of intelligence but it is amply shown to have a correlation with G

toxico wrote:

toxico wrote:

I bring it up all the time with people of color and we have intellectual discussions about it that are fun and respectful and highly informed of science. Perhaps you didn’t read my opening p. 6 post carefully enough to notice that I’m POC.

“Bring it up” where “it” means honest conversations about race and intelligence correlation or lack thereof, not caricatures by “black runner” like “ hey, do you think black people are less intelligent and that’s why they commit more crimes?”

It’s not a caricature.