If we were actually following the data and science and weren't selfish, we wouldn't allow Cole Hocker to get vaccinated now

That was an incoherent mess.

Avner wrote:

That was an incoherent mess.

I think it is fair to say that “well actually” should have proof read his post before submitting.

Not crazed just confused about what he’s trying to say, might have made sense in his own head. A for effort.

Getting vaccinated is a selfish act as we do so to protect ourselves against viral infection. But, in doing so, we are performing a selfless act by significantly reducing viral transmission to others.

It is selfish to refuse the vaccine when it is readily available because we continue to put others (including those 800x more likely to die from Covid - see author's relied-upon stats) at significant risk through that refusal.

"The level of immunity to infection/reinfection is far superior in those with past infections AND vaccination as compared with past infection alone. For the delta variant, reinfection is more common in those with natural immunity (past infection) than in those who are vaccinated."

People should not be taking health-related information from a Letsrun founder. Ideally, a Letsrun founder would have enough self-awareness to not be posting health-related information - it’s irresponsible

If you have education in epidemiology or infectious diseases or, preferably, have been working as a health care professional with a focus on epidemiology or infectious diseases, pony up with that information. Otherwise, leave it to experts.

Whether Hocker is vaccinated or not will result in zero additional shots going to elderly people in poor countries, since the vaccine has a use-by date, so there is no reason whatsoever for saying that it would be wrong for him to get it. If he had a case of COVID already, he might have some immunity, but it's poor judgment, in my view, for him to not get vaccinated, since it could wreck his Olympics and harm his fitness.

What? You mean I ate those friggin peas tonight for no reason?? Man, I have s serious beef with my wife and what she told me....

we should not be encouraging Cole Hocker and millions of other super healthy young people to get vaccinated right now - Rojo

This argument is questionable at best. If the US prioritizes saving it's own citizens, encouraging millions of super healthy young people to get vaccinated will decrease the risk of infection in the elderly population within the US.

But referencing Cole Hocker completely shatters this argument. Cole Hocker isn't just a super healthy young person, he's a a super healthy young person traveling to Japan, a country where the vaccination rates are low and the elderly are vulnerable. Are you actually suggesting that the 11,000 super healthy young people going to the Olympics should NOT be vaccinated?

Wise Old Man wrote:

The level of immunity to infection/reinfection is far superior in those with past infections AND vaccination as compared with past infection alone. For the delta variant, reinfection is more common in those with natural immunity (past infection) than in those who are vaccinated.

My impression is that this question is far from settled. This study (albeit not peer-reviewed yet) of 52,000 employees had a pretty impressive result, finding that "not a single incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection was observed in previously infected participants with or without vaccination."

Although I agree with posters who say it is not so easy to just redistribute the vaccine to other countries, I do not agree that Hocker should feel in any way obligated to take the vaccine. And as a matter of public policy, no one should ever feel forced to inject something in their body for the "public good" rather than their individual self-interest. If the decision calculus doesn't make sense at the individual level, then the vaccine is not safe enough, and the end result will be distrust and fewer people vaccinated against diseases in the end. (Just as happened in Japan after 1989 when the MMR vaccine was mandated and resulted in high rates of aseptic meningitis; a decision they are reaping now.)

Jacobs wrote:

we should not be encouraging Cole Hocker and millions of other super healthy young people to get vaccinated right now - Rojo

This argument is questionable at best. If the US prioritizes saving it's own citizens, encouraging millions of super healthy young people to get vaccinated will decrease the risk of infection in the elderly population within the US.

But referencing Cole Hocker completely shatters this argument. Cole Hocker isn't just a super healthy young person, he's a a super healthy young person traveling to Japan, a country where the vaccination rates are low and the elderly are vulnerable. Are you actually suggesting that the 11,000 super healthy young people going to the Olympics should NOT be vaccinated?

This is the correct answer.

Additionally, we have and continue to send vaccines to other countries, so Rojo’s entire premise is faulty anyway.

Including nandrolone?

People on these boards have gone so mad they are foaming at the mouth. Did some of you even read Rojo’s article? Have you guys forgotten what it’s like to train hard. Myyyy goddddd

Let’s look at a few facts:

1.) He has had COVID and chances of getting it again are slim to none. Would be bad luck on the level of...... being fully vaxed and still testing positive

2.) they are going to test like crazy before he’s allowed in to the Olympics. If he’s smart he’s probably not seeing anyone other than coaches or the people he lives with right now. He won’t be endangering the other athletes because if he tests positive he will be kicked out. I’d hope he will be wearing masks and practicing social distancing the entire time.

3.) assuming he got COVID between indoor and outdoor it would be very tough for him to get the vaccine. The college season is short and he probably couldn’t afford another disruption in training. Then he kept racing after the season as he had to run the trials. Then after the trials he’s had to gear up for the Olympics. That is a very full schedule. Could he have fit in two doses? Yes, of course. But he might have risked having side effects close to a major race or in the middle of a major training block.

4.) He is an ELITE athlete. Running will be his job. He must be able to perform at 100% all the time. Colds and small illnesses can really mess up elite endurance athletes. This isn’t like running the local Turkey trot with the sniffles and running 10 seconds slower than your PR. If Cole runs 1% less than his best he doesn’t win because he is going up against some of the best in the world. Everything matters when preparing to race at this level.

5.) I’m sure when he is done with the season he will get the vaccine when he has down time. If he goes back to school they will probably require it.

Before raging at your computers you all need to calm TF down and think about thinks logically. He’s an elite athlete with circumstances that are different from all the average hobby joggers on this thread. Cheers.

Billy Madison wrote:

This has to be one of the stupidest takes ever written on this website, and I've been reading since the beginning.

Not just stupid, but extremely irresponsible.

Get those clicks , though.

Just need to agree because this was a really stupid headline , unless rojo thinks they can just box up the unused vaccines sent to Eugene and sent somewhere else in the world.

But yeah, that's what Japan wants, an un-vaccinated foreigner coming into their country for a week or two and then leaving...that'll help their situation (and the rest of the world a lot if he gets Covid then spreads it to others, who then head back to their home countries).

Chip Chipperson wrote:

Lefty scum are triggered. Tell me Karl Marx sycophants, if you're vaccinated why do you care who isn't?

The Soviet gulags punished people who defended that system even when they were punished by it. These people will reject logic and reason to the bitter end. They will claim to oppose the "greedy corporations" and demand double blind studies that only the largest corporations can afford to conduct. They will create endless barriers before they let licensed medical professionals with years of experience even TRY another possible treatment.

Like those in the gulags, I'm sure the vaccine-maximalist crowd will also defend the system that beats them.

bret weinstein and the dark horse podcast wrote:

Chip Chipperson wrote:

Lefty scum are triggered. Tell me Karl Marx sycophants, if you're vaccinated why do you care who isn't?

The Soviet gulags punished people who defended that system even when they were punished by it. These people will reject logic and reason to the bitter end. They will claim to oppose the "greedy corporations" and demand double blind studies that only the largest corporations can afford to conduct. They will create endless barriers before they let licensed medical professionals with years of experience even TRY another possible treatment.

Like those in the gulags, I'm sure the vaccine-maximalist crowd will also defend the system that beats them.

In the past an oddball like you played dungeons and dragons, now you pollute running forums with meaningless sound bytes.

Get out of your room and live some, talk to girls, make friends, join a sports team.

agreed wrote:

Billy Madison wrote:

This has to be one of the stupidest takes ever written on this website, and I've been reading since the beginning.

Not just stupid, but extremely irresponsible.

Get those clicks , though.

Just need to agree because this was a really stupid headline , unless rojo thinks they can just box up the unused vaccines sent to Eugene and sent somewhere else in the world.

But yeah, that's what Japan wants, an un-vaccinated foreigner coming into their country for a week or two and then leaving...that'll help their situation (and the rest of the world a lot if he gets Covid then spreads it to others, who then head back to their home countries).

So the solution is what? Your worst case scenario can still happen even if he was vaccinated. According to you quarantine is useless then and we should all

Isolate forever.

Give me a break with the fear mongering. I sense and let the healthy 20 year old participate. Japan has strict measures. I trust Japan to keep it tight.

Calm down*

Him having got Covid sounds like complete bullcrap. It appears spewing bullcrap is in fashion among our elite runners nowadays.

fatsos wrote:

The olympics has 1000s of people traveling from every continents, a potential super spreader event. That's why he is a dumb-ss, selfish, and an idiot. Not because he's young and not vaccinated, but because he's going to the olympics while not vaccinated.

One look at the guy and I could tell he would be stupid enough not to vaccinate. Same thing with Michael Andrew. Coronavirus has been a tragic deadly pandemic but a magnificent litmus test. Anybody who didn't take it serious from the outset was a world class moron, and likewise anyone who didn't get vaccinated as soon as available to them.

Those people are laughingstocks for the remainder of their lives. Details mean nothing compared to the big picture.

moultonk wrote:

If the decision calculus doesn't make sense at the individual level, then the vaccine is not safe enough.

The issue is that the decision calculus DOES support everyone 12+ getting vaccinated, there's just so much noise and fearmongering that people aren't making the informed choice.