Awesome job measuring!!
For anyone who is interested here is a little background on this course. It was designed to be fast. You all seem to be jealous. Maybe you can lobby your city planners to support the running community like ours did. I’m proud of our city. There will be many more meets here, and I’m excited I will be able to watch them.
https://www.huntsvilleal.gov/cross-country-championship-course-opens-in-john-hunt-park/
I. Rex wrote:
I see the LetRun denizens are reacting exactly how everyone would predict they would react to this: trying hard to pick it apart and attach an asterix to it. I especially love the angry shouting of "a measuring instrument showing it wasnt short PROVES it was short!!" Get serious... It wasnt short. It was definitely a fast course. But who cares. There have been plenty of races on plenty of fast (and faster) courses but no one else has run any of them as fast as this kid did. So give her her due. A "fast course" doesnt impact the legitimacy of the effort. She was given the opportunity to do what no one else has done and she succeeded. I respect those people who had the only correct response to what Hutchins did: "Wow." And maybe "Nice job." Everything else is just ungracious irrelevant grandstanding and pedantic bogus over analysis.
+1
I. Rex wrote:
I see the LetRun denizens are reacting exactly how everyone would predict they would react to this: trying hard to pick it apart and attach an asterix to it. I especially love the angry shouting of "a measuring instrument showing it wasnt short PROVES it was short!!" Get serious... It wasnt short. It was definitely a fast course. But who cares. There have been plenty of races on plenty of fast (and faster) courses but no one else has run any of them as fast as this kid did. So give her her due. A "fast course" doesnt impact the legitimacy of the effort. She was given the opportunity to do what no one else has done and she succeeded. I respect those people who had the only correct response to what Hutchins did: "Wow." And maybe "Nice job." Everything else is just ungracious irrelevant grandstanding and pedantic bogus over analysis.
Well said! Jenna took an opportunity and ran fast. Be happy for her and others who set their best times. In fact, just be happy they were able to compete.
In less than 2 weeks we will get to see the other heavyweights (Brown, Thorvaldson, Vanderkooi) battle in Texas on a course that is not close to as fast. Should be exciting for the head to head battles we didn't get to see this past weekend.
Wait... the City of Huntsville hired professionals and spent over $1million to design and build a short course? You’re kidding, right?
First of all, the City of Huntsville should be commended and supported for their investment into cross country - of all things. It’s exciting that they would see a closed golf course as an economic development opportunity targeting runners.
Secondly, I hate the course. Don’t get me wrong I would have loved it as a high schooler. Cross country is supposed to be Fall strength training for track sport. It’s the sport where strength runners can pay back the rhythm runners from the previous spring.
If I were a track coach I’d love this course because it would be easier to convince my mid distance crew to run a 5k course than 12 1/2 laps on the track.
Which comes to thirdly, why not just place a three lane tartan track along the route with flashing pacer lights? Come to think of it, what are the odds that these 32 boys could break 15 minutes on the track that day? Probably not very high.
I really like what Huntsville is doing and I’d love to see more towns embrace this kind of effort, maybe just throw a hay bale or three out on the course to give the true cross country racer a chance.
Beckham wrote:
Wait... the City of Huntsville hired professionals and spent over $1million to design and build a short course? You’re kidding, right?
Come on down and see for yourself. Everyone who is chiming in that’s it’s short has never even been to the course.
I live in the area and was at the race. :)
Don Mauer wrote:
tracking wrote:
Hutchins' watch measured her run as 3.13.
EXCATLY. A true 5k would show up on a watch as much closer to 3.2. That proves the course was short.
Bull crap.
Ok give me a fact only a huntsvillian would know.
Link to course map and some other info pertinent to the venue as it appears there is curiosity regarding the facility as a whole. You can see why it's not hard to have the majority of the last 2 miles turn into a high energy area.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AvvWnT8r7B0jdbChIshA8MFwGmPd-2IH/view
This is a course video, though the wide angle doesn't do much justice to the overall character of the course. Many more trees out there now, the sod is about 95% perfect (next fall for NCAA regionals it should be at 100%) and some additional manicuring of the ponds, as this was over a year old. I would encourage anyone to watch a race video from this past weekend as it does a much better job illustrating the nature of the course. Also linked is the original announcement in the summer of 2017 of deciding to go ahead with the cross country facility. The mountain bike addition is currently under construction around the perimeter of the area (no crossover between the two though). The personnel behind the project did their due diligence in involving coaches, as well as an individual who USATF certifies much of the local road racing scene (Cotton Row Run, Rocket City Marathon, etc) as the local engineers are a bit fanatical and OCD about distance running. There was also extensive research of and discussion with a few at renown permanent venues around the US to ensure this was done right. This is simply the Huntsville contribution to providing excellent facilities to the cross country world. At the end of the day the discussions can be summarized with "What features do you (coaches, etc) want to have the best venue and attract the best events?" followed by "Ok, this is how we'll top that". Took a couple years of development, but this is the (nearly) finished product. It is currently wired with both power and fiber at all major split locations for the various course distances for championship events down the road. The course markers look great, and will be attached to the signposts that are already driven quite soon (the 9 foot poles you may notice in the race video).
https://www.al.com/news/huntsville/2017/06/huntsvilles_muni_golf_course_t.html
As a fancy elevation profile has not been transposed onto the course map (yet), the best is via Strava linked here for those with accounts. I will reiterate that neither the city facility personnel nor event coordinators (of any major event there) use the Strava map as gospel for start/finish. As I described in an earlier post, the facility management has much more sophisticated means of ensuring the start, finish, and everything in between are in the proper locations until the finish structure is built (not to mention keeping the race course lined 12 months out of the year). But this is fair graphic of the elevation profile.
https://www.strava.com/segments/21905735
This is what happens when the city finds a void it can fill in the athletic world. They did it a few years ago with a first-class aquatic facility that has two Olympic sized indoor pools. Short preview video linked below. That project cost a significant amount more than the cross country facility as well, so it wasn't a stretch to try to provide an XC facility that rivals anything else, as these sorts of projects have become something for the people involved to hang their hats on (as they should...they are fantastic). They did it with the massive soccer complex across the road from this course, as well as the $3.7 million sand volleyball complex that shares a parking lot with the XC venue. They just held the USA National Beach Tour Championship there in July in conjunction with USA Volleyball.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKQ9ix5qN7g
I think Logic123 said they find Hutchins run from Chickasaw more impressive. I wholeheartedly concur, as it was much warmer out there in early September and those who ran both events seemed to enjoy the much cooler weather and newer venue a bit more. This is an interesting illustrator of the relative perceptions of distance running in general, but cross country in particular with people gravitating towards nice round numbers ending in XX:00. I would be interested to know how her speed rating from the Oakville course stacks up as the conditions were approx. 83F with a dew point of 73F at race time on September 12 as compared to 60F and 50F, respectively.
Again, state of the art doesn't mean easy in any of these competitions, and the ultimate kudos lie with the many athletes who made the event special through their efforts.
D.Katz wrote:
Interesting - 25 meter difference between starting boxes.
Why don't organizers use a curved starting line to ensure that all of the runners run the same distance?
That's why there weren't any athletes assigned to some of the farthest out boxes on either side ;) There has previously been a curve in the line as this is something I also nitpick to the nth degree
Well done to the organizers.
Hay bails a la Portland Meadows have ironically been a recent conversation. However I strongly doubt that will ever take root. Honestly, up until October this venue is quite a bit more challenging with southern weather as there is no reprieve from the sun and humidity (with the exception of the absolutely anomalous weather a few September weekends this fall). Always tons of fun, but not a cakewalk. Certainly no Woodbridge pancake (not that there is anything wrong with that. Racers gonna race!) :)
runnerfan wrote:
Don Mauer wrote:
EXCATLY. A true 5k would show up on a watch as much closer to 3.2. That proves the course was short.
Bull crap.
Not crap. It is the truth. Anyone that runs an accurately measured XC course will know this to be true. But since most courses are measured by GPS, most people think their GPS watch is giving the correct measurement.
I was accurate. Sorry. Steady on.
I must say that arguing that the substantially lower speed rating can be explained away or ignored because the course is so much faster was amusing. That is kind of the point, that it is lower because other runners had faster times because the course is relatively faster.
Don Mauer wrote:
runnerfan wrote:
Bull crap.
Most courses are not measured by GPS and the John Hunt course has been measure multiple ways!
I see you conveniently forgot to reply to my post stating the countless USATF certified courses I have run that never measure further than 3.15 on my Garmin. But that is ok.....keep hating!
Not crap. It is the truth. Anyone that runs an accurately measured XC course will know this to be true. But since most courses are measured by GPS, most people think their GPS watch is giving the correct measurement.
First, congrats to Hutchins on an AMAZING effort! Regardless of the actual distance it doesn't take away from how incredible her performance was.
Still, when you look objectively at the times across the board, I'm not sure how you cannot question the distance of this course. Whether it be the meet in September where the meet overall was super quick or whether it was the race Saturday, athletes are running times that very few, if any, would ever equal on a track for a 5k much less on an accurate 5k on the grass.
I'll also add that Tully speed rated Hutchins's time a 167 - which is tremendous - but it's four points shy of what she speed rated a few weeks back at her regional meet.
All that to say, can we just agree that it's an all-time performance but steer clear of calling this the fastest time a high school gal has ever run? Lets save that for track where I bet she will have great shot to set the national record in the 3200.
runnerfan wrote:
Ok give me a fact only a huntsvillian would know.
Hmm.. North parkway was under construction for the better part of 30 years?
There was a Toys R Us and mall on the corner of University and Memorial Parkway years ago. (where planet fitness is now)
I do know I attended all of the city council meetings when this XC course project was being debated.
Shifter wrote:
All that to say, can we just agree that it's an all-time performance but steer clear of calling this the fastest time a high school gal has ever run? Lets save that for track where I bet she will have great shot to set the national record in the 3200.
I don't see the problem in saying her RXC performance is the fastest cross country 5k time in HS history?
Saladbar who wrote:
Don Mauer wrote:
Most courses are not measured by GPS and the John Hunt course has been measure multiple ways!
I see you conveniently forgot to reply to my post stating the countless USATF certified courses I have run that never measure further than 3.15 on my Garmin. But that is ok.....keep hating!
Not crap. It is the truth. Anyone that runs an accurately measured XC course will know this to be true. But since most courses are measured by GPS, most people think their GPS watch is giving the correct measurement.
So you actually think the engineers who designed this took their garmin’s out on the course to measure it?