casual obsever wrote:
I consider it unethical to get hormone treatment (thyroid or otherwise) just to be able to run faster - and that neither depends on WADA's opinion nor on the science, but solely on the athletes intention.
After reflection, this is a fair response -- but one that requires us to glean the motivation to search for treatment to determine the ethics.
What about the other two articles I posted?
Hormone therapy cheating was out of control and the mainstream media jumped on it.
You might be the only person on the planet that does not think that abusing hormone therapy as a means to improve athletic performance is unethical and dangerous.
If a coach and a doctor tried to cheat with other drugs, why have you singled out hormone therapy as ethical, normal, and acceptable?
Do you think rival athletes and coaches are fine with Oregon based Nike runners using hormone therapy?
Do you think any athletes are still going to doctor brown for hormone therapy treatment?
No they aren’t because it is now seen as cheating and unethical.
drug drug same wrote:
What about the other two articles I posted?
Hormone therapy cheating was out of control and the mainstream media jumped on it.
You might be the only person on the planet that does not think that abusing hormone therapy as a means to improve athletic performance is unethical and dangerous.
If a coach and a doctor tried to cheat with other drugs, why have you singled out hormone therapy as ethical, normal, and acceptable?
Do you think rival athletes and coaches are fine with Oregon based Nike runners using hormone therapy?
Do you think any athletes are still going to doctor brown for hormone therapy treatment?
No they aren’t because it is now seen as cheating and unethical.
What about them? Media sensation, or the opinions of rival athletes and coaches don't address what exactly is the ethical issue for a drug that does not violate WADA's rules, and WADA considers not performance enhancing.
I have singled out thyroids because it is the subject of this thread.
This has nothing to do with the coach, the doctor, or Nike.
I am not the only person, as I have taken the official position of WADA which says hormone therapy is not a means to improve performance.
Brown's ban also has nothing to do with thyroid. Athletes are forbidden to work with him because of other offenses unrelated to thyroid.
You keep getting the same fundamental facts wrong -- even after being corrected.
You asked about rival coaches and athletes of the former NOP -- they should be comforted to know, that the result of a lengthy investigative process that left no stone unturned, was Tygart's lack of finding that any NOP athlete ever broke any anti-doping rule.
No matter how hard you try, everyone knows manipulating medical tests to get hormone therapy is unethical, cheating, and dangerous to the health.
ok so
the thing that gets me ( I have read this book) is how controlled Galen's life was by Alberto. His every move. He couldn't even decide for himself what he was getting for dinner. He couldn't live a normal college life. He was ostracized from his team. Alberto controlled Galen's every move and Galen seemed...fine with it? That just seems like too much. It seems like he should have rebelled at one point.
The book also is the first to cast doubt on Galen's allergy issues. It claims no one saw him really suffer from allergies.
Bump
To keep thyroid hormone cheating Solinski on the first page
wejo wrote:
Dr Yuengling wrote:
Kinda seems like the backbone of this book is the interviews from the gouchers and magness. Doesnt exactly reek of objectivity.
Have you read the book? To say he isn't objective I think is grossly unfair.
Matt Hart is an investigative journalist. I thought he was very fair.
Adam Goucher and Pete Julian have two conflicting stories on what Goucher allegedly told Julian about joining Alberto. Matt presents them both.
The narrative closely tracks the Goucher's story, however he spoke to many of the early people at Athletics West like Jeff Johnson, he synthesized a ton of the other work out there. This isn't Kara Goucher's take on Alberto. It clearly has their viewpoint but he spoke to a ton of people. I haven't seen a sports book this deeply footnoted.
Sounds like Adam was lying . Or mis-remembered the facts
drug drug same wrote:
No matter how hard you try, everyone knows manipulating medical tests to get hormone therapy is unethical, cheating, and dangerous to the health.
No one is manipulating medical tests to get thyroid therapy.
Maybe you are confusing it with something you heard about exercise induced asthma.
Your article makes the point that the medical science around what is normal thyroid function isn't so cut and dry, with doctors debating what is "normal", and also confirms, with respect to performance that it cannot enhance performance: "One of the differences that thyroid replacement has from other forms of sports supplementation is that there is a clear peak point – normal thyroid function."
I guess this is why WADA finds arguments uncompelling, and why I find your arguments uncompelling.
drug drug same wrote:
Go to any medical journal and there are 1000s of articles on drugs improving human performance.
Are you a simpleton?
Medical journals with thousands of articles that ignore energy kinetics.
Are you a simpleton?
drug drug same wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/sciencebasedpharmacy.wordpress.com/2013/05/09/will-thyroid-medication-make-you-a-faster-athlete/amp/No matter how hard you try, everyone knows manipulating medical tests to get hormone therapy is unethical, cheating, and dangerous to the health.
It is unethical, it is dangerous to health.
The "cheating " part is just silly. None of you have even a basic clue about energy kinetics. So you need to further your education, otherwise you are just adding to the ignorance.
“But in the report, antidoping officials depicted Salazar as a medicine chest whose door swung open for the world-class athletes on Nike’s payroll. They said he provided or helped gain access to prescription-dose vitamin D; calcitonin; ferrous sulfate; Advair; testosterone; and various thyroid medications. Many of the drugs have no proven benefits for runners.“
“In June 2010, after an unproductive season of injury, Ritzenhein and Salazar’s conversations moved from supplements to “synthetic thyroid,” Ritzenhein testified, saying it was “to help with low testosterone levels.” Blood work performed at Nike’s lab showed that Ritzenhein’s thyroid-stimulating hormone and his testosterone levels were both within the normal range. Regardless, Salazar sent him to see Dr. Jeffrey Stuart Brown, an endocrinologist who is known for his belief that synthetic thyroid medication enhances athletic performance.”
Salazar used hormone therapy as a way to raise testosterone in Ritiz.
Clearly that’s cheating!
“In another case, an athlete who tested negative was encouraged to take another test after a hard workout, which can influence the result.”
7. Salazar wanted to give Goucher a prescription thyroid drug because she had put on weight after giving birth
What was alleged Goucher claimed to Panorama that Salazar had tried to get her to take the prescription thyroid drug Cytomel, saying: “Alberto was always unhappy about my weight after I had Colt, like it was almost as if I didn’t have a child, I’d just like gained 30 pounds. He said: ‘You need to just take some Cytomel.’ Maybe four or five days goes by and Alberto brought me this prescription drug that I didn’t have a prescription for. It has Alberto’s writing on it it clear as day.”
8. Salazar was happy for his athletes to take banned testosterone medication
What was alleged Panorama spoke to another unnamed runner, who worked with Salazar for several years, who said that in 2007 he was feeling run down and went to see Dr Loren Myhre, who “suggested that I go and see an endocrinologist that Alberto and most of the athletes work with, to get testosterone and thyroid. He said: ‘This is what Alberto does. You’ll feel better and you’ll be able to train better,’ and so then I said: ‘Well, isn’t that cheating?’ And he goes: ‘Well no, Alberto does it.’ I did mention something about being, like: ‘Wouldn’t it test positive?’ He said: ‘No, no, no. We’ll get you into the normal range.’”
Athletes used hormone therapy to raise testosterone, lose weight, and recover from hard training. They manipulated the test by arriving to their doctor’s appointment depleted from a hard workout and not eating. They were coached what to say to the doctor to receive hormone drugs.
THIS IS CHEATING!
No legit “ coach” does these things. Thyroid meds, asthma meds, testosterone..... Come on, Sleazy Sal.
He’s a disgrace to the sport, a disgrace as a father for experimenting on his own children, and an arrogant douche who deserves a permanent ban from the sport, followed by lawsuits from the athletes who’s health he messed with.
Classic definition of a dirtbag.
drug drug wrote:
Salazar used hormone therapy as a way to raise testosterone in Ritiz.
Clearly that’s cheating!
It's actually not cheating if no rule was broken, and thyroid hormones break no WADA anti-doping rule.
drug drug wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/sports/nike-oregon-project-alberto-salazar-dathan-ritzenhein.amp.html“But in the report, antidoping officials depicted Salazar as a medicine chest whose door swung open for the world-class athletes on Nike’s payroll. They said he provided or helped gain access to prescription-dose vitamin D; calcitonin; ferrous sulfate; Advair; testosterone; and various thyroid medications. Many of the drugs have no proven benefits for runners.“
“In June 2010, after an unproductive season of injury, Ritzenhein and Salazar’s conversations moved from supplements to “synthetic thyroid,” Ritzenhein testified, saying it was “to help with low testosterone levels.” Blood work performed at Nike’s lab showed that Ritzenhein’s thyroid-stimulating hormone and his testosterone levels were both within the normal range. Regardless, Salazar sent him to see Dr. Jeffrey Stuart Brown, an endocrinologist who is known for his belief that synthetic thyroid medication enhances athletic performance.”
I agree that Salazar and Brown acted unethically.
But arguing with rekrunner is pointless. He moves the goalposts so far around the pitch that he is is scoring own goals.