Matt Hart's new Nike book is great - Salazar once tried to kiss Kara Goucher and said Solinsky ran 26:59 because of thyroid meds

You can purchase the book here:

https://www.amazon.com/Win-All-Costs-Running-Deception/dp/0062917773

Kinda seems like the backbone of this book is the interviews from the gouchers and magness. Doesnt exactly reek of objectivity.

The Chris Solinsky part is plausible. He never demonstrated that kind of ability in years prior and who would know better about thyroid meds than Salazar?

Dr Yuengling wrote:

Kinda seems like the backbone of this book is the interviews from the gouchers and magness. Doesnt exactly reek of objectivity.

Agreed.

Dr Yuengling wrote:

Kinda seems like the backbone of this book is the interviews from the gouchers and magness. Doesnt exactly reek of objectivity.

Sure, you would prefer a book written by Nike editors telling how it "really" is. Maybe the USADA should not have banned Salazar because gouchers and magness? That reeks of where you are coming from.

"Those [Nike] scandals are chronicled in many previous books about Nike, including “Swoosh,” by J.B. Strasser and Laurie Becklund; “Bowerman and the Men of Oregon,” by Kenny Moore; “No Logo,” by Naomi Klein; “Cycle of Lies,” by Juliet Macur; “Out of Nowhere,” by Geoff Hollister; and “Shoe Dog,” by Phil Knight, one of Nike’s founders.

kmaclam wrote:

Dr Yuengling wrote:

Kinda seems like the backbone of this book is the interviews from the gouchers and magness. Doesnt exactly reek of objectivity.

Agreed.

Ahem, the book is about the Nike Corporate motto: Win at All Costs. It is NOT a book just about the gouchers and magness.

Dr Yuengling wrote:

Kinda seems like the backbone of this book is the interviews from the gouchers and magness. Doesnt exactly reek of objectivity.

I know Nike has interns look at the LRC messageboard. Are they also paid to post on here? Responses like yours are just laughable and hard to respond to.

He interviewed tons of people including Nike's first employee, Jeff Johnson, as well as Jerry Schumacher and has like 60 pages of footnotes to document everything as Nike is known to lawyer up. On the podcast, he talked about how he repeatedly tried to get Alberto to talk . He went to Alberto's house and office talked to Nike PR but got nothing from them.

If Alberto or Phil Knight wanted to talk, he would have been happy to talk them.

One thing Weldon and Jonathan talked at length about on the podcast is how Matt doesn't make conclusions. He doesn't say someone is evil, someone is good, he lets the reader draw their own conclusions as it's a complex story.

I love it. Even though some of this is obvious to some of us, I feel an expose like this is just what the sport needs. I mean, look at anyone, ever, in trouble for PEDs. Not just running, everything. Bonds, Armstrong. All Nike. Nadal wears the swoosh. Not sure if he's juiced, but it ain't just running. I'm aware of 2 non-Nike convicted jocks. Ben Johnson and Alberto Contador. Shorter would say Cierpinski should be that list. Some of you could possibly name a few more. It's actually somewhat difficult to name juicers who are NOT part of this machine.

Thanks for telling me what I prefer. I'm not commenting on the guilt, innocence, or morality of Alberto Salazar. I'm pointing out that the primary sources for any research into the NOP at this point are disgruntled former members. That doesn't mean they're wrong or that they're lying, but they are definitely biased. It's going to be difficult, at least for the time being, to get a well rounded and objective perspective because there's no incentive for active athletes and/or coaches to comment. Guys like Julian, Engels, Rupp, Farah, etc.

Dr Yuengling wrote:

Kinda seems like the backbone of this book is the interviews from the gouchers and magness. Doesnt exactly reek of objectivity.

Have you read the book? To say he isn't objective I think is grossly unfair.

Matt Hart is an investigative journalist. I thought he was very fair.

Adam Goucher and Pete Julian have two conflicting stories on what Goucher allegedly told Julian about joining Alberto. Matt presents them both.

The narrative closely tracks the Goucher's story, however he spoke to many of the early people at Athletics West like Jeff Johnson, he synthesized a ton of the other work out there. This isn't Kara Goucher's take on Alberto. It clearly has their viewpoint but he spoke to a ton of people. I haven't seen a sports book this deeply footnoted.

Dr Yuengling wrote:

Thanks for telling me what I prefer. I'm not commenting on the guilt, innocence, or morality of Alberto Salazar. I'm pointing out that the primary sources for any research into the NOP at this point are disgruntled former members. That doesn't mean they're wrong or that they're lying, but they are definitely biased. It's going to be difficult, at least for the time being, to get a well rounded and objective perspective because there's no incentive for active athletes and/or coaches to comment. Guys like Julian, Engels, Rupp, Farah, etc.

0/10, Nike troll.

Once again: The book IS NOT ABOUT NOP. IT IS ABOUT NIKE!!!

NOP is a "part" of the book because NIKE Oregon Project.

PS. Try not to be such an obvious troll. Thanks in advance.

wejo wrote:

Dr Yuengling wrote:

Kinda seems like the backbone of this book is the interviews from the gouchers and magness. Doesnt exactly reek of objectivity.

Have you read the book? To say he isn't objective I think is grossly unfair.

No, the troll has not. They have no clue what is about except gouchers and magness are involved. Therefore, Bad, very Bad.

I imagine it's hard to respond to because you lack both reading comprehension and writing ability. I did not say that the author purposely excluded Alberto's side, nor did I say he reached unsubstantiated conclusions . But the fact is, as long as the only people who are talking extensively about Salazar are those who publicly despise him, there's not going to be a complete picture. The fact that certain details and perspectives of a story are impossible to obtain does not mean that an account that excludes them is complete. Alberto has an existing case; he is obviously not going to publicly comment. Nor are any other Nike athletes or coaches. This book would be a better idea in 10 or 20 years when more immediate sources might be willingly to comment.

have to say it..... wrote:

I love it. Even though some of this is obvious to some of us, I feel an expose like this is just what the sport needs. I mean, look at anyone, ever, in trouble for PEDs. Not just running, everything. Bonds, Armstrong. All Nike. Nadal wears the swoosh. Not sure if he's juiced, but it ain't just running. I'm aware of 2 non-Nike convicted jocks. Ben Johnson and Alberto Contador. Shorter would say Cierpinski should be that list. Some of you could possibly name a few more. It's actually somewhat difficult to name juicers who are NOT part of this machine.

Bonds was with Fila in his record-setting days.

Dr Yuengling wrote:

I imagine it's hard to respond to because you lack both reading comprehension and writing ability. I did not say that the author purposely excluded Alberto's side, nor did I say he reached unsubstantiated conclusions. But the fact is, as long as the only people who are talking extensively about Salazar are those who publicly despise him...

Salazar is banned. He was banned by the USADA. There is nothing more that needs to be said. Your personal hatred of gouchers and magness reeks of severe Salazar fanboy-ism.

The part about Salazar getting Boston Marathon training advice from a Letsrun thread makes no sense. I have no doubt whatsoever that he was/is glued to these forums and has probably already checked out this thread, but I highly doubt he would read comments about the downhills at Boston and take it to heart and alter his coaching plan accordingly. He already knew everything there was to know about Boston. Something isn't adding up here.

Yes! For life, but unfortunately AAA reduced the ban to four years. Let's hope Salazar is really so stupid to go along with his appeal and CAS reinstates a longer, more appropriate ban.

Jeff Wigand wrote:

have to say it..... wrote:

I love it. Even though some of this is obvious to some of us, I feel an expose like this is just what the sport needs. I mean, look at anyone, ever, in trouble for PEDs. Not just running, everything. Bonds, Armstrong. All Nike. Nadal wears the swoosh. Not sure if he's juiced, but it ain't just running. I'm aware of 2 non-Nike convicted jocks. Ben Johnson and Alberto Contador. Shorter would say Cierpinski should be that list. Some of you could possibly name a few more. It's actually somewhat difficult to name juicers who are NOT part of this machine.

Bonds was with Fila in his record-setting days.

Actually, other perspectives are quite possible to obtain if people with those perspectives are inclined to speak. However, the Swoosh folks weren't inclined to talk to Hart.

And note that it isn't all the Gouchers and Magness. Hart presents facts such as the ridiculous percentage of professional runners diagnosed with thyroid issues, Salazar providing prescription drugs to athletes who had not been given the prescription, and Salazar's experiments with drugs on his own children. There also is the incident when Farah claimed that he hadn't received an injection even though there were several witnesses, and he then was forced to recant when he realized that his lie would be exposed.