RE: Cheating at Marathons

At what point did your individual amusement become the measuring stick for Let's Run message board relevance? No one is making you read the thread. Don't click the link. Simple solution.

Cheating is only relevant if it amuses you, involves "real" sports or athletes, and/or both? Cheating is cheating, and is especially distasteful if individuals are benefiting monetarily or by receiving undue notoriety that detracts from the recognition of legitimate exploits. [/quote]

Not relevant? This is Let's Run, isn't it? This thread is about running (however loosely defined) marathons and ultras. How, exactly, is it not relevant?

Interesting.. wrote:

If she admitted to accidentally not completing the entire route at one or at most two races would that be enough for you witch hunters? Would that stop you all from showing up uninvited to her events in SA?

Not until we see her run a sub 4:30 marathon or better yet, a sub 10 hour 50-miler at an event where we can document that she covered the entire course.

someone new wrote:

Interesting.. wrote:

If she admitted to accidentally not completing the entire route at one or at most two races would that be enough for you witch hunters? Would that stop you all from showing up uninvited to her events in SA?

Not until we see her run a sub 4:30 marathon or better yet, a sub 10 hour 50-miler at an event where we can document that she covered the entire course.

I would settle for just one 23:00 100. She could even run just one pre or post 100 marathon instead of her preferred 3.

someone new wrote:

Interesting.. wrote:

If she admitted to accidentally not completing the entire route at one or at most two races would that be enough for you witch hunters? Would that stop you all from showing up uninvited to her events in SA?

Not until we see her run a sub 4:30 marathon or better yet, a sub 10 hour 50-miler at an event where we can document that she covered the entire course.

I would settle for just one 23:00 100. She could even run just one pre or post 100 marathon instead of her preferred 3.

Boo, Pumpkin Series is next up wrote:

http://www.iranmarathons.com/

For anyone who wants to be a spook and see that her races are for real PM has posted her Halloween Series of Marathons.

There are no time limits and PM provides course support until the last runner finishes.

Look out for the Great Pumpkin!

Eugene the Careful Axe Wielder wrote:

At what point did your individual amusement become the measuring stick for Let's Run message board relevance?

I think that's the whole point. I don't come on Letsrun for my living or to save my dying village. I do it for amusement.

This thread continues to amuse me, so I'll keep checking it out. But even if I lived in San Antonio, I'm not going to waste a day going out to PM's race and verifying if she runs or not. That's downright weird. I waste enough time on this board (by my choice and for my amusement). Unless Guinness is paying me, I'm not going to stand out in some park in San Antonio to watch six walkers go back and forth for seven hours.

Interesting.. wrote:

PM was never the last person in any of the splits during the race.

From your link:

77 75 2352 Moayedi Parvaneh f 50 San Antonio Texas USA Iran 600 6:53

Name one person over 6:53 at the first split.

are we reading the same data.. wrote:

Interesting.. wrote:

PM was never the last person in any of the splits during the race.

From your link:

77 75 2352 Moayedi Parvaneh f 50 San Antonio Texas USA Iran 600 6:53

Name one person over 6:53 at the first split.

this whole thing is very boring to me all of a sudden. I think I'm through posting here. have fun with your witch hunt losers!!!

are we reading the same data.. wrote:

Interesting.. wrote:

PM was never the last person in any of the splits during the race.

From your link:

77 75 2352 Moayedi Parvaneh f 50 San Antonio Texas USA Iran 600 6:53

Name one person over 6:53 at the first split.

Gerald Tabio 7:31 first split.

Finished in 44:41

Your'e right. I see that now. She was 2nd to last at the LP2 45mi check in.

I cut and pasted your trusty link into Excel and sorted each check in smallest to largest - didnt even have to do math there! I limited my search results too the 84 finishers - so these numbers do not include those who DNFd with honor (vs cheated to a finish)

KE3/59 mile - PM is last (12:57)

CG4/67 mile - PM is last (19:41)

KE5/75 mile - PM is last (23:37)

DA6/91 mile - PM is last (25:55)

LP7/122 mile - PM is 2nd to last (32:25)

PR8/131 mile - PM is 3rd to last (41:44)

Finish/135 mile - PM is 6th from last (44:45)

Now lets be honest. these numbers really don't help in context. B/c its how everything stacks up to her fellow finishers as she moves from last to 6th to last where things get wacky.

And yes, we're dealing with the back of the pack here.

but all the sudden she moves up quite a bit at a point in the race where that is not a very normal thing to do.

Darpanet wrote:

Gerald Tabio 7:31 first split.

Finished in 44:41

http://dbase.adventurecorps.com/individualTd.php?e=5190

Thanks for the correction. Completely missed that one.

There are 2 things that can make a runner move up in the pack:1. They get faster.2. Other people get slower.It doesn't prove anything if PM moves up, unless you look at the whole picture. It DOES raise a red flag though. We have red flags coming out of our yin-yang. What we need is to catch her in the act.

Nobody finds it curious that the back of the pack trio central in this Badwater connundrum had curiously fast last splits compared to runners around them. One of the runners who had been languishing in last or second to last among those who finished, suddenly had a great last 44 miles? This runner, not PM, suddenly improved from having the 82-83rd fastest splits for most of the race to suddenly spitting out the 42nd fastest split over the last 44 miles - a split comparable to runners finishing 10-12 hours faster.

We they spurred on by PM's alleged cheating or simply followed her lead?

From the talk ultra Facebook page..

Allegations of cheating at a huge ultra in the alps..

"News coming in from Tor des Geants that Francesca Canepa has withdrawn after accusations of cheating! I must stress this needs more clarification, however, carreraspormontana has provided an article and here is a google translate -

'The Italian runner quit the race in Donnas, at kilometer 149, after being accused of being seen climbing into a car and cutting the course, which reportedly occurred in step by Cogne. It is still unofficial results from the research organisation.'"

After mile 91 she did not pass Thomas or Darren. Both runners independently confirmed. So did their crews. Thomas actually saw PM get in the van at 103 and speed into town. That alone is enough for me .

When you are dead last at mile 91, and have been for the entire race, and you are fat and out of shape, you are not going to make it in 48 hours. She was hours behind Darren at 91. She did not run past him. She did not run past Thomas. Why? Because she had nrr minivan take her.

She had to cheat finish. Desperate time that late in the race and she resorted to cheating.

When did she pass Darren? When Thomas passed her at 103 why did she head into town? If she staked out, why was that not in her race report? If she did stake out her race would have been over because there was no time to stakeout and come back and finish. If she did stake out, when did she come back and pass Thomas ?

She is such a cheating liar. The woman has no fitness. She can barely walk a marathon in. 7 hours. You honestly think she got faster the last 30 some miles. She is a known cheater across this country. Please. This is actually humorous!

phredryka wrote:

I cut and pasted your trusty link into Excel and sorted each check in smallest to largest - didnt even have to do math there!

LOL. Work harder not smarter, right? You can organize each column by time on the website. Just click the column header. How much time have you wasted on all of this? Nothing better to do, hmm?

Thonday Goodler wrote:

LOL. Work harder not smarter, right? You can organize each column by time on the website. Just click the column header. How much time have you wasted on all of this? Nothing better to do, hmm?

fair enough :)

Though, if we're going to get technical about time wasting though, I freely admit 96.4% of all time I spend on LRC is completely useless to my well being. Run more, read less, right?

Some of you are confusing evidence and proof with a lack thereof. With Badwater, you have testimony from two competitors and some crew. Unfortunately, in an event that allows "staking out", actual cheating would involve an eyewitness seeing her get out of a vehicle and continuing from there. Nobody did. No, these eyewitnesses didn't see her pass them. Frustrating, very frustrating. It is pretty clear something happened. But that isn't proof.

I think best case, the Detective Comics wing of letsrun should get BW thinking about barring PM from future events.

Note... she has very BS splits from (at least) three different Tejas Trails events: two Rocky Raccoons, and Wild Hare. Wild Hare is the most egregious because she took an award from someone else. She was DQed from one but not the other two. Somewhere in this thread, a strange story was floated that she got lost in the woods of RR while taking a dump, on a loop she has run approximately one thousand times. She likely got DQed because she admitted she cut the course (that must have been one special dump). But not the other two because, funny numbers aside, there's no proof.

The Detective Comics wing of letsrun prides itself on outing Kip Litton. You did good there and he stopped. Then again, nobody ever figured out how he did what he did. And nobody got giant admissions of guilt or even a mea culpa from Kip. What are you expecting here?

Ever since Kip, Detective Comics has looked for the next big thing. There was that Dane guy who was accused of taking a ride in an event. That one fizzled out because nobody had ever heard of the event and nobody cared about Dane. Aside from being a twit.

All the information about Badwater has been stated. The last 20 pages have been mostly restating the same numbers and claims and misrepresenting what was actually claimed.

The Pinkertons might want to follow up on how LM managed to be in Utah and Texas on the same day... but even that one will lead to a dead end. PM was the director of one of those events. Her events aren't sanctioned by anyone. She doesn't even have a permit from the city. She could list him as a finisher even if he started 48 hours later. Yes, it is very weird that she deleted all her results (and dumb. Nothing on the Internet goes away really). But if an event isn't sanctioned through anyone, it is impossible to break any laws or rules. The whole institution is bogus.

The Pinkertons might want to follow up with some of the other finishers of her races to see if they even exist. The problem is that you can't prove a phantom is a phantom. You will never find the John Smiths from the results. Best case is that you will find a John Smith that says it wasn't him. It is obvious that stuff is being manufactured. But you can't prove it.

The Pinkertons might follow up with Guinness to see if they are embarrassed by this. Or if they knew that PM's "friend" that probably signed off on her feats is in reality her husband.

But, it is Guinness. Does anyone even care? If you do, that's more an anchor than anything else here including Badwater.

The Pinkertons might follow up with members of her Badwater crew, including Kevin Allen. I bet you don't find Kevin Allen though. At least not by that name. I could be wrong.I think the name is a phantom as well.

Or you could just let it all go. The stuff in the past. Either she flies the straight and narrow in the future, or Pinkerton catches her cheating, red handed. Maybe she continues the embarrassing charade of these "races" in San Antonio and maybe she does not. Does it matter?

By the way, her site lists that there was an event called "Virgo" that was supposed to happen yesterday. Funny thing, two ACTUAL half marathons by a different organization and permitted by the city were put on at the Leon Park Greenway yesterday, all day long. Pinkerton might see if that race org or participants noticed another race being held in the exact same place and the exact same time.

Thank you for the entertainment. The thread was more entertaining earlier on with strange references to people no one had heard of (Denize???) than the last 30 pages.

But keep restating the same Badwater splits. It does help out google.

Passing on paper only wrote:

When you are dead last at mile 91, and have been for the entire race, and you are fat and out of shape, you are not going to make it in 48 hours. She was hours behind Darren at 91. She did not run past him. She did not run past Thomas!

So to be clear, what is being alleged is that at the 91 mile mark, she was approximately 2 hours and 12 minutes behind Darren with only 44 miles left in the race. Then, at this point, after having been in last place from KE3 to DA6, she suddenly began to pick off the competition one by one I one of the toughest sections of the course.

So from what I am seeing, we are now being asked to believe that she then passed no less than 5 other runners (and their crews) over the next 44 miles of the course. Amazing comeback if indeed this is what actually happened. I must admit, I thought she would have been pulled from the course and DNF'd based on the first half performance at the time the race was taking place. I was surprised to later discover that she had somehow pulled off an amazing feat of strength and endurance.

Now, the fact that two (40%) of the remaining 5 runners she allegedly passed have no recollection of her passing them on the last stages of the race, is troubling to say the least. I'd like to hear what the other 3 runners (who have remained quiet) recall about the point in the race she had to have passed each of them. I'm sure the RD has already spoken to them, so somebody has to know what they reported?

What has her own crew reported about the matter?

If she did indeed have an amazing and legitimate comeback from behind performance, that's the kind of thing legends are made of. If I were the RD, I'd want to validate the results by interviewing anyone and everyone on the last 44 miles of the race as soon as possible. It would be a box office smash if indeed she pulled this off like we are being asked to believe she did. The publicity a verified feat like that could bring to race would be amazing!

Wonder what the RD is waiting for?