RE: Cheating at Marathons

Why do you keep changing usernames?

Well said.

It seems like running is the only sport where a participant can be lauded for a mediocre performance if it's repeated a sufficient number of times or in sufficient frequency.

If you were a 70% free throw shooter, but shot 10,000 free throws per day, it wouldn't be any more impressive than if you were a 70% free throw shooter who shot 20 free throws per day. You're a 70% free throw shooter either way. It doesn't become impressive by doing more of it. You can't hide your mediocre free throw skills by shooting an exorbitant number of free throws.

It's actually even worse than that. It's like if you were a 70% free throw shooter at the normal free throw shooting frequency but decided to shoot 10,000 free throws a day even though you had to granny a bunch of them only halfway to the rim in order to save your arms so that you can finish all 10,000.

So, you are normally a 70% free throw shooter (which like that 3:00 marathon a maniac bragged about above is nothing special to begin with) and then dropped to a 40% free throw shooter when you upped it to 10,000 a day.

But, wow!, you paid to get your name on a website with other losers. Congrats!

There is room for everyone. Whether or not "3:45 or better is garbage is a very subjective statement.

There are maniacs with 2:08, 2:14 and other sub 2:20 personal bests. There are others just below a marathon's cut off time. Maybe some take an early start.

Again, not the point.

Exposing cheaters is. Please, try to stay on topic.

I will give you two cents for your opinion on how the cheating may or may not have been "caused".

And please, ask PM about Badwater if you see her.

I was supposed to see her in my final two state marathon to finish the 50 (at NH/ME)....next month....(I dont recall seeing her in person, though its possible we were in the same event)........Since I recently unfriended her on FB, and told her I "drank enough kool aide" ...you can appreciate that I wont go out of my way to look for her.....

I agree with the last two posts.

This thread was amusing at first but at this point it has been dominating the front page of the LRC forums for more than two months.

This is a running message board, not a board for never-has-been 7 hour marathon/sub-hobby-joggers who took up walking long distances in their 50s after a lifetime of sitting on the couch.

At this point I don't care if PM is a cheater, and almost welcome it given how much of a joke fake "sport" the entire enterprise is, as long as they'll keep their PTA meeting bicker fest off of our forums.

We don't care about PM, her rivals, Multi Marathoners or any of their gossip. Quit flooding our board with your irrelevant garbage. Take it to joggers world or pinterest or wherever it's relevant. It's not here.

You don't get in the Baseball HOF by having one or two good hits. But if you have 3000, they'll more than likely let you in.Quantity over Quality.

Cheating is now the norm in most sports. Why all the fuss? It's just how it is.

Take it elsewhere wrote:

This is a running message board...

Exactly. This topic is related to running and is relevant. Class dismissed.

Maniac wrote:

You don't get in the Baseball HOF by having one or two good hits. But if you have 3000, they'll more than likely let you in.

There is one caveat though. The 3000 hits have to be in the Major Leagues.

Marathon Maniacs are more like slow pitch co-ed softball league and they are on the team losing by the ten run rule in the 3rd inning.

No one cares if, after 30 years of playing softball, you have eked out 3000 infield singles against a bunch of drunks.

Concerned Saint Onion wrote:

Take it elsewhere wrote:

This is a running message board...

Exactly. This topic is related to running and is relevant. Class dismissed.

Just because you want to call 17 minute miles "running" doesn't make it so.

It's painfully obvious at this point that page after page after page here are 90% posts from two or three mentally unhinged individuals (yes, probably PM and her rivals) having manic episodes where they freak out and do runs of 20 exclamation points!!!!!!

Fighting over which one has walked more 17 minute pace "marathons".

It appears this thread has morphed from cheating into a "my accomplishment is better than yours" petty feud. The only apparent reason for this insulting others is childish jealousy...there is no other motivation. Yes cheaters need to be called out, but this recent nonsense here is nothing more than juvenile attacks by obviously jealous immature individuals. I suggest you all grow up and learn to respect others' accomplishments instead of tearing them down every chance you get.

Just because you want to call 17 minute miles "running" doesn't make it so.

It's painfully obvious at this point that page after page after page here are 90% posts from two or three mentally unhinged individuals (yes, probably PM and her rivals) having manic episodes where they freak out and do runs of 20 exclamation points!!!!!!

Fighting over which one has walked more 17 minute pace "marathons".[/quote]

I think you might be surprised at the fact that there are a lot more individuals posting on this thread than you think. Granted, we are not all fast runners, but many of us have been running (some run/walking) for quite some time. This has never been about the "front of the pack" or the "turtle in the back". This was, and remains about allegations of cutting courses, entering false or inaccurate information, and trying to get to the truth about the matter.

So, by definition, a marathon is:

1. a foot race over a course measuring 26 mi. 385 yards (42 km 195 meters).

2. any long-distance race.

3. any contest, event, or the like, of great, or greater than normal, length or duration or requiring exceptional endurance.

Yes, it's a race to the finish line, but it's far more than that for many. Each of us has our own reasons to compete / enter. I'll never be an elite athlete, but I'm okay with that. I run and sometimes walk for the physical, mental and health benefits I get out of it. Some of us run or walk because we have overcome personal challenges such as cancer, injuries, addiction or even a heart transplant. We understand that there are rules regarding times and cut-offs. We acknowledge the fact that when given an even playing field, there will be a first place finisher and a last place finisher. In fact, some may not even finish at all.

This has been about keeping the integrity of the race and making sure that the spirit of the marathon experience is maintained. This is about making sure rules are followed and those found not following them, held accountable. Sure, in the grand scheme of things, what difference does it make to the front of the pack runners that a back of the pack runner may have cut the course, probably not much of a difference. But I can assure you that it makes a difference to everyone else who gave the race their all to cross the finish line, no matter how long that may have taken them. It also makes a difference to each and every person who took a DNF due to injury or not making the cut-off.

So you see, this isn't a small matter that means nothing to the running, marathon, and ultra community. In fact, I would bet that if the person I question were a front of the pack runner, you'd be doing all you could to get to the truth. This is about honesty, integrity, and accountability.

Thanks, couldn't have been better stated. We should close the post here.

Marathon & Ultra Marathon wrote:

So, by definition, a marathon is:

1. a foot race over a course measuring 26 mi. 385 yards (42 km 195 meters).

This is about honesty, integrity, and accountability.

I think Parvaneh Moayedi and Steve Holehan would take issue with those points.

Eddie Hahn wrote:

Thanks, couldn't have been better stated. We should close the post here.

No we shouldn't, we're not at Option 4 yet.

Options wrote:

When you're caught and cornered you have four options:

1. Try and bluff your way out of it with diversionary tactics.

2. Threaten legal action.

3. Ignore it and hope it goes away.

4. Admit it.

Doc McStuffins wrote:

Marathon Maniacs are more like slow pitch co-ed softball league and they are on the team losing by the ten run rule in the 3rd inning.

Trust me, Doc, everyone thinks the Marathon maniac group is a complete joke/disgrace. Now let's please get back to discussing PM cheating at races.

gus the mfing bus wrote:

Doc McStuffins wrote:

Marathon Maniacs are more like slow pitch co-ed softball league and they are on the team losing by the ten run rule in the 3rd inning.

Trust me, Doc, everyone who is insecure, immature, and jealous thinks the Marathon maniac group is a complete joke/disgrace. Now let's please get back to discussing PM cheating at races.

Fixed your post for ya...

people, people.... the point is PM CHEATED AT BADWATER! The point is to motivate the RD, Chris Kostman to DQ her.I think Steve-o her is posting as a maniac (heck, maybe he is one, I don't care enough to google it) and trying to go back to Option 1 again.If you want to debate the value of fast/slow/multiple marathons, go back to the maniacs FB page and hash it out over there. This thread is about PM.

Options wrote:

When you're caught and cornered you have four options:

1. Try and bluff your way out of it with diversionary tactics.

2. Threaten legal action.

3. Ignore it and hope it goes away.

4. Admit it.

by the way, Concerned San Antonion. I know you quite posting a long time ago as your self, but I assume you're still reading this thread. You said you'd reached out to the local news channel, etc. Are they aware of this thread? It seems at this point we need to have a bit more public pressure on PM and her fake races with fake runners. They may not be able to do much with the Badwater DQ, but you'd think the local press could have a field day if some intern actually went through the runners names at her races.

go away wrote:

I think Steve-o her is posting as a maniac (heck, maybe he is one, I don't care enough to google it) and trying to go back to Option 1 again.

Holy crap Jason. Quit with the Steve accusations. There are people who believe that PM is a despicable cheater but also that this thread is off the rails and you've become unhinged. Not everyone who doesn't obey your "focus only on how evil PM is" commands is Steve.

I believe PM and Larry Macon are cheats. But I also think you're weird and obsessed. I guess that makes me Steve because apparently everyone on the planet except Steve cares only about destroying PM.