RE: Cheating at Marathons

This "discussion" has taken more strange turns than the amazon river.

Ed Ettinghausen may be a stand up guy, but hold the phone. I don't know what he is up to these days, but wasn't he the dude that caused a ruckus in the Maniacs back in 2010 for claiming to run a gigantic number of marathons (like Larry), but it really came down to 3-5 person races, 2 to 3 of them every weekend, all held by the same race director with self-reported results? (Very similar to PM's races)

And sometimes multiple names in the list were Ed? Here's an example. Not only did he run the same marathon twice in the same day, but he also apparently ran the half marathon too:

http://charliealewineracing.jimdo.com/race-results/national-ding-a-ling-trail/

Given Ed's reputation as a stand up guy, there's less doubt he covered the miles. But it is just another example of people working so hard to get a record that everything starts getting nuts. Is it really a race if you run it after everyone else goes home and tell the RD that you ran it?

If I recall correctly, it turned out that Larry somehow ran more. 2010 was the year that the whole concept of races became a huge farce. In my opinion, it is thoroughly embarrassing and for many, MM jumped the shark.

But anyway, this is letsrun. The folks here don't give a crap about the Maniacs and this thread is devoted to PM... pro/con... and apparently Badwater.

This thread is crazy wrote:

Haha Steve posting again using a bogus email address which he has done many times on this thread [ either yahoo or gmail]. He makes it accessible to see if you click on the handle to make it seem like its not him and its legit. Pathetic

The thread is about PM and Badwater, and therefore Ed's name is relevant IMO. Yes, Ed was trying to set a marathon world record, in part, by running two CAR marathons per day in 2010. He ultimately did not succeed. CAR also changed their race policy to only permit one race a day. What did Ed later do-or what is he endeavoring to do? Break the WR for the most 100 mile races or further in the same year,( the hard way.) (Two of his twenty five 100 mile plus races have been 400 miles). I guess someone is now going to suggest that he is effecting a proliferation in ultra runs of 100 miles???

Its been so long I had to go back and look at what the specifics of the Badwater 135 cheating were. The discussion starts on page 12, and continues through 17 and onwards, with some Option 1, Distract, thrown in. i am pasting a few of the key points below to save time for others new to this thread. its easier than trying to summarize, though if someone else wants to, that would be awesome! Where is SOLKR when we need him?

Where there's smoke...

RE: Cheating at Marathons 8/1/2014 11:34PM - in reply to Where there's smoke...

I honestly have no idea what the truth is here but there does seem to be an awful lot of circumstantial evidence. Just looking at the splits from this year's Badwater, PM is one of only two runners to run faster on the second half of the course. The first finished 7th overall and was 18 mins faster on the back half. PM, on the other hand, supposedly ran over an hour faster on the second half. On a course as long and difficult as Badwater, I just don't buy it. I find it much easier to believe that she somehow cheated.

hills slow you down

RE: Cheating at Marathons 8/2/2014 5:29AM - in reply to elephino

those splits seem wacky when overlayed w course elevation profile

http://www.badwater.com/route/2014/Badwater135_2014_profile.jpg

Darren Fortney (#18/Badwater)

RE: Cheating at Marathons 8/4/2014 2:23PM - in reply to sleepy?

I was asked to comment on this discussion. I am putting everything out publicly. I am not about to hide behind one thing I am about to disclose. There is a bunch of theories about what happened at Badwater put out there by people who were not there. Well, I was.

First of all, I do not know PM. I don't care about her records or business. I have nothing to gain or lose in this discussion. I am not a pro athlete. I am hold a regular job and am a Dad. I like to run ultra's but this is my hobby, not my career. I don't lie. I don't cheat. I don't have sponsors. I am not out to get anyone.

I live in WI with my family. I am a 4x Badwater finisher. I ran Badwater last month/2014. I am going to throw out a few facts about Badwater 2014 because there have been a few folks bringing it up and I feel uniquely qualified to talk about FACTS because I was there. Badwater 1014. I was in front of PM for the ENTIRE race with the exception of the first hour that it took me to catch her between her 6 am start and my 7 am start.

Yes, I will bring up FACTS. Nothing more. Nothing less. First PM was behind me approximately 2 hour and 12 min hours at the turnaround at Darwin (91 mile mark). At this point, I was 1 hour ahead of PM based on my later starting time and 1:12 physically in front of her. Again, 2 hours and 12 min ahead of her (2:12). I finished the race from 91 to 135 without napping, sleeping, or other off course breaks. I was on the road the entire time. AT NO TIME DID PM EVER PASS ME from mile 91 to the finish, yet she somehow finished an hour in front of me!???!! I also have a crew of 3 other individuals from mile 91-122 and a 4 person crew from miles 122-135. Nobody on my crew saw one trace of her on the course after we passed her at the Darwin turnaround (we were heading home from Darwin, she was still climbing to Darwin). I was near the back of the pack this year due to being sick. She was behind me. We physically saw her behind us on the out and back. On a long straight desert road, you absolutely know 100% when someone approaches you....especially at Badwater where the runners talk and encourage each other as they pass each other. First you see the crew vehicle leep frog you (that is the first sign a runner is approaching you from behind....you see their vehicle first), then you see the runner, then the runners engage with each other as they pass, then you see the runner disappear in front of you. The process at this stage in the race typically takes approximately 30 min, depending the speed differential of the runners. I was moving well at that point. Between myself and my 3-4 crew members that were with me the ENTIRE time, we can all attest to the fact that PM 100% DID NOT PASS US AT ANY POINT IN THE RACE......especially in the back 44 miles of the course. These are FACTS. Something is definitely NOT RIGHT about this entire scene. I DO NOT care for people disrespecting any race.....be it Badwater or the local 10K race. Have a good day.

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5882052&page=11#ixzz3CR0PHk6zDarren

Fortney #18/Badwater

RE: Cheating at Marathons 8/4/2014 5:24PM - in reply to runnsczz

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I asked PM directly how she finished in front of me when she never passed me. She had no response or explanation. When asked where and when she passed me between miles 91-122 (she somehow got to lone pine in front of me), once again no explanation. I can tell you each and every runner who was in front and behind me (+- 10 each way)when and where I passed them or when they passed me. At Badwater you know. It's a flat road in the desert. The back end of the race is deserted. When we see teams and runners, we interact. Runners bond at the passing points. We encourage and support each other. We ask if they need help. Badwater us a bonding event. We are not competing against each other.... But against ourselves and the conditions. Our teams interact with each other. Obviously this was void with PM and her team because they did NIT pass us. It's not just me. My entire crew was there too. We would have seen her and her team on the race course. Nobody slips by you.

Yes, the race director Chris Kostman is aware of this information. I will respectfully leave it in hands what to do with it. I have zero stake in this game. I am just a guy who likes to run.....and run honestly. I didn't even know who this woman was until a few weeks ago.

split rankings that sink in

RE: Cheating at Marathons 8/8/2014 12:22PM - in reply to Verrrrrry Interesting

You can do all the math you want. You can look at splits and speed differentials and all types of things. The bottomline is this: it is all relative to the course, the distance and your racing peers. So here are some facts. I have not yet completed some of the middle splits yet but I will. Out of the 87 finishers, let's look at ranking v. PM's peers and see if anyone really doubts that she cheated:

Split 1/Mile 23: PM ranked 87/87 slowest of all finishers

Split 2/Mile 45: PM ranked 87/87 slowest of all finishers

Split 3/Mile 59: PM ranked 87/87 slowest of all finishers

Split 4/Mile 67: PM ranked 87/87 slowest of all finishers

Final 2 Splits Combined/Mile 122-135 (finish) PM suddenly ranked 33/87 up the final 13 miles of the course.....the course hallmark toughest climb. WTF???!?!? Really?!?!?

So, her final split 122-135 she beat out the following over all finishers times: 12th place fiisher/time of 30:29, 14th place finisher/time of 30:38, 21st place finisher/time 33:07, 24th place finisher/time 34:20, 25th place finisher/time34:21. These are some of the best of the best in the world people. She goes from slower in the race for half of it to somehow going 33/87 in the final 13 miles? If her finisher peer group, she was faster than the 13 finishers in front of her and all of the runners behind her. In otherwords, of the final 13 finishers, she had the fastest final split from 122-135. Really?!?!? And there are numerous people that also "never saw her on the course or pass them". This all adds up to one word: CHEATER!!!!!

Do you really believe she did not cheat? Of course she CHEATED!!!! She is not even fit people!!! Why is this so hard to believe that she cheated?!?!? She is a 6-7 hour marathoner.....she is not about to throw down splits like that after being the races ass for so long.

split rankings that sink in

RE: Cheating at Marathons 8/8/2014 12:29PM - in reply to split rankings that sink in

Slight correction. She was the fastest split for miles 122-135/finish of the final 19 official race finishers (13 in front of her and 6 behind her). Wow.....really? Again, have you physically seen her? World's Greatest Cheater. LOSER!

thomas

RE: Cheating at Marathons 8/8/2014 4:53PM - in reply to verrrrrry interesting

Hi everyone. 1st time on this site. Darren had directed me to this forum. Btw, I was bib#42 at BW. First off, I have nothing to gain but only acting on a question from a very respectable ultra runner's question, "What would you do if you knew someone cheated in a race?"

Here's what I saw. PM caught up to me at the summit of Cerro Gordo then again at the base, Keeler. From Keeler, she went ahead of me and I didn't see her until I was about a mile away to the turnaround (Darwin) and she was on her way back to lone pine. It was about a few miles passed the 100mi marker that I saw her and the pacer making their way to their crew vehicle and stopping. Also, please keep in mind it's a descent from the darwin so I started running with some short walks in between. Eventually, we passed her and her team. We then stopped a mile ahead for a few mins. At that point, we never saw her or her crew pass us. As i continued on, I saw her crew vehicle zoom right by us. I looked back and no signs of PM. After that, the team and I never saw her again.

Ed,

Usually when you're going to stick up for yourself- you want to at least change your poster name. This is actually my first post on this thread. Been reading about PM and her train wreck. It's cool you came out and posted. Really is- just learn how to change your name properly haha.

UH OH ED wrote:

Ed,

Usually when you're going to stick up for yourself- you want to at least change your poster name. This is actually my first post on this thread. Been reading about PM and her train wreck. It's cool you came out and posted. Really is- just learn how to change your name properly haha.

Just happens to also be called Ed (Eddie). Ed ran Badwater and Eddie was at the event and knows him. Two different people with similar names. Took me a second to figure that out.

Eddie Hahn and Ed Ettinghausen are two entirely different people. One I know personally, and the other I have never met personally.

Sounds like there's been a lot of fishiness about a lot of these marathons for a long time... but only the few people trying to break the record knew much or paid much attention to it.

But then PM decries to jump into ultras. Smaller group. Not Guinness runners. And they care, b/c they suffer to finish every single one.

And PM cheated. Her Badwater 135 splits show there is no chance she finished honestly. Other runners saw her disappear from the course.

She needs to be DQ'd from Badwater 135.

She's using that on her website. She's using it for her sponsorships. She's using it to help her make money.

As the RD she's never going to DQ herself from her own races, and no one has heard of her races. Heck no one ouside the ultra community knows abut RR100.

But everyone has heard of Badwater.

Just to reiterate.

thank you for the laugh wrote:

Hi Eddie! I'm a MM too - from the early # days when it wasn't the joke it was now.

Marathon Maniacs was always a joke. Sure, it is even worse now, but it was always a joke.

It is not a joke. However, like in all groups, there are some who give the group a bad name.

Orville McK. wrote:

thank you for the laugh wrote:

Hi Eddie! I'm a MM too - from the early # days when it wasn't the joke it was now.

Marathon Maniacs was always a joke. Sure, it is even worse now, but it was always a joke.

Thanks. You are correct. Prior poster, do not confuse me. Ed is a personal friend. He has not spoken publicly on this thread, or privately to me about the Parvaneh/badwater issue, (although I have asked.)

It is a joke. It completely downplays finish times in races. You have to pay a fee in order to have your name on a website? And it is an annual fee at that! If you do something unwise from a physical health standpoint, like run two marathons on the same weekend, your reward is another shiny star or two by your name? Wow - sign me up, here's some of my money!

Of course, the only way to complete the high frequency of marathons that are necessary in order to "advance" in the MM society is to run them much slower than you would otherwise be capable of. So, saying that MM downplays finish times isn't even enough. They actually penalize people who attempt to run a race as fast at they can because anyone who tries to run something a high frequency of marathons as fast as they can is going to get injured. There is no way around that.

Thus, MM celebrates and rewards the intentional slowing down of marathon runners. This mindset has caused RDs to cater to MMers - unnecessary early starts that clog up race courses and mock the actual competition of a race for one example.

Marathons are little more than parades now, and MM is a big reason why.

In some respects I agree with you, however this is not the topic of the thread.

"They actually penalize people who attempt to run a race as fast at they can because anyone who tries to run something a high frequency of marathons as fast as they can is going to get injured. There is no way around that. "

Evidence? Not necessarily true...Look at the times of most of the founding maniacs..predominantly low 3 hour range, or below, in some cases week in and week out...Yes older now than when the club was formed, and periodic injuries but not consistant with your broad sweeping statement.

Not going further off topic by expanding. This thread is about a cheating marathoner who happens to be a maniac. For now.

Whaaaaaa! Whaaaaaa! Did you drop your pacifier?Come race me. We'll see who is slow.

Who is the baby? I'd say it is you, Maniac.

Embarrassed that you pay money to have your name on a website with a shiny silver star?

I'll race you tough guy, and you can even take the early start. Be sure to wear your ugly yellow MM singlet so all the real runners know you are a huge douche.

How about you guys shut up about Maniacs, i'm one and have done 3 marathons in a month all 3:45 or better, better than 99.9% OF ALL lets runners. Now keep MM out of your mouth, people who complain about the are purely just jealous and would never say anything like you say on these forums to our faces.

There's a few more perks than that. I more than make back what I pay in dues each year.I don't take early starts. Where do you live? I'll come to you.

gus the mfing bus wrote:

Who is the baby? I'd say it is you, Maniac.

Embarrassed that you pay money to have your name on a website with a shiny silver star?

I'll race you tough guy, and you can even take the early start. Be sure to wear your ugly yellow MM singlet so all the real runners know you are a huge douche.

gus the mfing bus wrote:

Who is the baby? I'd say it is you, Maniac.

Embarrassed that you pay money to have your name on a website with a shiny silver star?

I'll race you tough guy, and you can even take the early start. Be sure to wear your ugly yellow MM singlet so all the real runners know you are a huge douche.

What is this thread about again? Good thing it's 73 pages long.