For a start, I never responded to you, I responded to someone with a different series of roman numerals as their handle name! If you are the same person, then perhaps you should stick to the same name, so that others can at least work out who they are talking to.
Secondly, I have never seen any data on Coe's performances; either through NUTS membership, AW, his own biographies or elsewhere; at 12 or 13 (apart from a 4:31.8 1500m), or for 100, 200 or 400 pbs at age 14! He was a X-Country runner and 1500/3000 on the track at that age, so I have trouble believing some of those times without some provenance. It would be interesting to know where you got them from?
There are also a few mistakes with the age progression you gave.
At 15 Coe's pb for 1500 is listed in several sources as 4:05.9, not the 4:04 you gave. And his best 3k that year was 8:49 not 8:52.
At 16, you quote his best times for 400 & 800, but fail to list his 1500 (3:55) and 3000 (8:34.6) pbs, which were his main distances at the time. You also fail to note that he was the English Schools 3000m champion that year. No he wasn't as prodigously talented at an early age as Cram or Ovett were, but if you have seen photos of them in their teens, then you will have known that the Steves were already at their adult heights by 17/18; whereas Coe was a late developer and was tiny in height and build; not stopping growing until 21.
Interestingly, at 16 Coe's and Cram's pbs over 800m were almost identical; Coe 1:57.0, Cram 1:56.5; yet Coe, who at this stage was the English Schools Champion over 3000m, was already faster over 400m - 51.8 compared to Cram's 53.6. This was years before Coe commenced any weight training, and indicates, despite being much smaller for his age than Cram was, a superior natural speed.
For 18, you don't list Coe's 300m pb of 36.2, which is superior to his 400m best that year, and he was also the European Junior bronze medalist over 1500m, beating Abascal (3:31 and Olympic bronze medalist in 84) and Ray Flynn (elite miler). Perhaps they were slow developers too!?
So even by 18, it is clear Coe is one of the best 1500 runners in his age group in Europe.
In a previous post, if indeed it was you, you claim that Coe blood doped as he had toxoplasmosis, and that Cram was the fastest clean 2 lapper. After I commented on the total lack of evidence for such a viewpoint, your next response states that Coe was on a steroid programme! That was never mentioned by you prior, and seems like a case of conveniently moving the goal posts in order to support a claim that lacks any real evidence.
The idea that having toxoplasmosis indicates blood doping is nonsense. It might be worth considering if you would care to offer some data; to support your leap of faith; on the percentage of any sample groups (athletes or non athletes) who have contracted toxoplasmosis as a result of blood doping or indeed blood transfusions?
In addition, what is the % of those suffering from toxoplasmosis who contracted it through blood transfusions or blood doping?
Let's see the data that suggests either scenario is common.
Millions of people have toxoplasmosis in their system from contamination from cats, soil or undercooked meat. Although people can be infected through contact with cat faeces, the far more common way for someone to have contact with the parasite that causes toxoplasmosis is through unhygienic handling of raw or undercooked meat, drinking contaminated water and exposure to garden soil or sandboxes where infected cats may have defecated.
'In the US, the most common way to get infected with the toxoplasmosis parasite is by eating raw meat or unwashed fruits and vegetables (Cornell, 2008).'
Fortunately, most people have been exposed to or infected by Toxoplasma and already have immunity to the disease. People with weakened immune systems run the greatest risk of contracting toxoplasmosis.
Those in relatively good health will usually show no signs or simply have mild, flu-like symptoms. About 10-20% of people infected with toxoplasmosis will develop symptoms similar to flu or glandular fever. “Symptoms usually appear a week or two after infection, wax and wane and then subside gradually over a period of two weeks to several months.”
http://www.nytimes.com/1982/10/27/garden/personal-health-247906.html?pagewanted=2Some people have swollen lymph glands or muscle aches and pains that last for a month or more. In healthy people who show symptoms, a flu-like feeling is the most common (which may result in the mistaken diagnosis of infectious mononucleosis)
. These symptoms also include:
• fever
• swollen lymph nodes, especially in the neck
• headache
• muscle aches and pains
Occasionally, patients may complain of a sore throat. These symptoms can last for a month or more.
http://www.healthline.com/health/toxoplasmosis#Symptoms3These are the symptoms Coe showed. He didn’t have severe toxoplasmosis, which effects the brain, eyes and organs.
Most people live with it without showing anything more than flu like symptoms. It can be serious if you put your body through physical stress. For an Olympic athlete training every day with a condition living off your energy sources, then it's going to result in a 1 or 2% drop in performance. That's the difference between winning in 1:42 and being in the middle of the pack in 1:45.
In addition, the practice in that period for blood transfusions by sportsmen was almost universally autologous blood doping. If he was putting his own blood back into his body then the only way he could have got it through blood transfusions would be from his own blood! Which means he must already have had it in his system through one of the regular means cited above.
Coe having toxoplasmosis is no indication at all of blood doping unless he was happy sharing used needles, which seems extremely far fetched. A total red herring.
Your second revelation, that Coe must have done steroids because he was involved in weight training, is even more far fetched. At the time, core strengthening and weight training for middle distance runners, was pretty revolutionary. They are now common place amongst elite athletes, proving that they must work in improving speed and strength in many athletes.
The idea that Loughborough undertook steroid testing, and therefore Coe must have been on it as he was a student there, is really clutching at straws. Moorcroft, Graham Williamson, Chris Boxer, Chris McGeorge and many others were also at Loughborough at the time. Surely they must all have been on roids too!?
You do realise that Loughborough has been for many decades the leading Sports Science University in the UK? So of course the scientists there would undoubtedly have done some testing on steroid use.
Coe's training at Loughborough was under the guidance of George Gandy, who has been (and still is to this day) one of the UK's leading middle distance coaches. There has never been any whiff of his athletes being implicated or involved in any 'doping' affairs.
I'm intrigued to know exactly how you perceive the link between weight training and steroid usage? The only one I can think of is the cliched one of a guy wanting to bulk up, hitting the gym and using steroids to speed up the process and put on muscles.
Does Coe really look like he 'bulked up' and put on loads of muscle? He was 5'9" and weighed 58kg in 79, that's barely over 9 stone. By 86 his racing weight was listed as 54kg, under 9 stone! That is not the physiological blueprint of a steroid user. Both Ovett and Cram had more developed musculature.
Coe only started focusing on 800m after he ran a 1:47.7 at 19 in 1976. At that time he was a miler and trained as a miler. He started training on core strength and weights after that race in the winter of 76. He improved to 1:44.95 in 77 at 20 and 1:43.97 in 78 at 21. The progression he made once starting weights was impressive but not startling; 1:47.7 - 1:44.95 - 1:43.97 (and he felt he was capable of 1:43.5 that year) is a very normal looking progression to me. It certainly raises no alarm bells.
At 1500m, he was running 3:42 at 19 (in 76, before the weights programme), and then ran a 3:57.7 mile ( worth about 3:40 for 1500) at 20, beating the 1500m WR holder, Bayi, in the process. That was first and foremost a race, and his only 1500 or mile race in 77. He beat the fastest man ever over 1500m at 20, and was probably capable of several seconds faster in a paced effort.
1978, when he was 21, was another season focusing on speed and the 800m, and again he ran just one 1500/mile race. It was a 4:02 mile in very windy conditions, and he had stated that he was going to have a go at the UK Mile record, which was around 3:52.8 at the time, but the weather put paid to that. Instead he had an easy win over Rono, athlete of the year.
He also beat Coghlan, McLeod and Foster's course record in a 4 mile road race in the autumn of 78. For a man who had basically just run 800m for 2 seasons, to go up to such an over distance event and beat athletes with faster mile times, is clear evidence that his 3:42/3:57 pbs were not a true reflection of where he was at in 78 for those distances.
So the 3:32 and 3:49 Wrs in 79 have to be looked at in context of the fact that he had run (and won) 2 races only at those distances in the previous 2 seasons, so of course he was going to have a big drop in his pbs once he got into a paced race.
In concluding, you are indeed entitled to your opinion re Coe, but to put such stock on him being (the only?) a steroid user on the basis he openly admitted to doing reps with weights, and that he blood doped because he suffered with toxoplasmosis; which is far more likely to have been contacted through eating rare steak, is a very flimsy argument based on rumour perpetrated on here by the likes of Ventolin et al in the past.