Do elite train in flats?

When Last I Looked wrote:

I've yet to see an elite train in flats.

That's cause I/they don't!

Benji Durden would disagree.

Anne Audain would disagree.

DougC wrote:

Benji Durden would disagree.

Then strike the "they".

Lydiard's boys would disagree.

Loads of sub 2:12 Japanese marathoners would disagree.

i'm not an elite in any sort of way, but i was wondering what some of the flat training gurus think about the mizuno wave spacers as a trainer.....i have been training in them for around the past month and a half (i know its ont that long) and i love them, eventually i would like to go more minimal (i.e kennedy with vibrum outsole) and once these wear out i will either do that or get them re-soled.

i was checking out the wave spacer last week. they have a good ratio (20:10) but the shoe is just too stinking stiff to be considered minimal. that stiff plastic chunky crap piece needs to be taking out. youd be better off with the revolver and taking a razor blade to the middle of the outsole to increase the flexibility.

Does that 8" name represent how much snow you recently got?

I know elites train in spikes when on the track. I've seen Marla Runyan in them, but maybe you don't think she is elite. I'm not attempting to name drop. Personally, I think if you want to train at a pace similar to race pace, you need to put on the type of shoes that will you'd wear in a race type situation in order to simulate a race environment.

That is soo true.

I recently saw a picture of Lagat and Cheseret training out here in Tucson. Cheseret was in the Pegasus, Lagat in the Kantaras. Considering that this was our dinky, poduck, small-town Tucson, AZ paper, I don't think it was much of a photo op for Nike to showcase their product. What am I saying exactly? They don't train in flats.

You know, I had dinner with Lagat last week and talked with him for about 2 hrs, and thought about asking him about is thoughts on shoes, but... we were just ahving a good time talking about track and racing and Africa ... I thought why bother.

Most elites defer their shoe choice to their sponsors. Few (such as Lorraine Moller) question the company line.

trackhead wrote:

You know, I had dinner with Lagat last week . . .

Dear Mr. trackhead,

Your mentioned recently that you met with some shoe manufacturers, and I was wondering what came of that meeting. Or did I miss your report on one of the other minimalism threads?

I saw a different edition of that newspaper with several photos of Lagat and Cheseret doing a barefoot long run down a highway. Really I saw it trust me. Gotta agree they don't train in flats.

I won't name names just because... but...

I spoke with a high level designer and explained my whole case on shoes and minimalism and they were not countered. I was told that my apporach was good (individual analysis, finding a starting point and working towards more efficiency/strength, less shoe) and that if the efficiency and strength is there, that people require no additional cushioning/support.

But, I was also told that at this point, such individuals are a very small number of the western population and as it stands most of these new runners are sedentary, non-athletic folk (or atleast without serious athletic background) and have used big shoes all their life and are conditioned into those big shoes. So that's who they market to. But of course, should demand increase for shoes that are "less", the industry will respond.

I was very encouraged. I wasn't told that I would pay for it later, or that it's only because I'm under some arbitrary weight, whereas I'm told that the designers of other makers firmly believe that humans (by definition) need cushioning for serious running. I was glad to find someone with an exemplery formal education in this field to tell me that, if I met all the requirements, I didn't need anything under my foot.

[quote]trackhead wrote:

I won't name names just because... but...

trackhead, i thought h streets gave you all the shoe you need. why more? are you suggesting that flats are not good enough? honest question, no sarcasm intended

Trackhead,

"But, I was also told that at this point, such individuals are a very small number of the western population and as it stands most of these new runners are sedentary, non-athletic folk (or atleast without serious athletic background) and have used big shoes all their life and are conditioned into those big shoes. So that's who they market to. But of course, should demand increase for shoes that are "less", the industry will respond."

This flies in the face of the current casual shoe fashion trend in college and HS with a large number of people wearing what look like wrestling shoes, or minimalist-retro running shoes (old Puma, Asics etc). This fashion look shows that the population will go where fashion takes them. This may make your argument to the running establishment a bit more solvent when they forward the "yeah, but the public likes big shoes" arguement.

what does the ' 8" ' stand for?

must have been a misprint