Bernard Lagat's monday training run after a day off - 11mi @ 5:12 pace

ventolin^3 wrote:

[quote]SMJO wrote:I am a moron. Please respond

try

[/quote

No no,. not a link to you personal site.

Does Bernie just cruise?

pathetic

ventolin^3 wrote:

pathetic

You couldn't even offer anything? You disappoint me.

I figure if Bernie has slowed down by about 8 seconds per mile and can run 12:53 as an old man his potential was even greater.

I'll stick with 12:40.

ventolin^3 wrote:

Ryun didn't have a '70s synthetic nor pacers to get dragged around in 49-flat for 800 or 2'30 for 1500

track has never witnessed a beast with such crushing endurance tacked onto almost unbelievable speed for a miler of ~ 45-flat

Missed this gem.

Sure he did. Ryun ran on 70s synthetic many times.

Why would he need pacers that went that fast? He would have been too far back to get any benefit and wouldn't even have been able to close anyway.

Coe had better endurance and similar speed.

He beat Coghlan over 4 miles and Cova over 5 miles.

Ryun would have been very lucky to catch a whiff of Coe's jock if they raced at their peaks.

Didn't Lagat just run 4:54 for 2000m?

I thought Kellogg put that at 3:33/3:50 for 1500/mile. The year Lagat ran 12:53, he ran a 1500m in 3:33. Pretty sure the speed is still there.

SMJO wrote:

ventolin^3 wrote:

Ryun didn't have a '70s synthetic nor pacers to get dragged around in 49-flat for 800 or 2'30 for 1500

track has never witnessed a beast with such crushing endurance tacked onto almost unbelievable speed for a miler of ~ 45-flat

Missed this gem.

Sure he did. Ryun ran on 70s synthetic many times.

Why would he need pacers that went that fast? He would have been too far back to get any benefit and wouldn't even have been able to close anyway.

Coe had better endurance and similar speed.

He beat Coghlan over 4 miles and Cova over 5 miles.

Ryun would have been very lucky to catch a whiff of Coe's jock if they raced at their peaks.

Um, no.

Here are some facts.

1) Ryun was a shadow of his peak self in 1968, and an even bigger shadow of his peak 1967 self from 1971 (when he came out of retirement) until the end of his career.

2) Coe never broke 14 minutes for the 5k, Ryun ran an 8:25 2 mile on a dirt track as a 19 year old (read: before his best). Ryun also ran a 13:38 5k in 1972 (well past his best). In no way did Coe have better endurance

3) Coe did not have similar speed. He had inferior speed. Ryun ran the last 300 of a 1500 in 36.5 seconds. The backstretch was under 12 seconds. This was on a dirt track. Winning time was 3:38.2. Final 400 was 50.5 with him running wide on the first curve.

4) You're an idiot.

facts > bullshit wrote:

Um, no.

Here are some facts.

1) Ryun was a shadow of his peak self in 1968, and an even bigger shadow of his peak 1967 self from 1971 (when he came out of retirement) until the end of his career.

2) Coe never broke 14 minutes for the 5k, Ryun ran an 8:25 2 mile on a dirt track as a 19 year old (read: before his best). Ryun also ran a 13:38 5k in 1972 (well past his best). In no way did Coe have better endurance

3) Coe did not have similar speed. He had inferior speed. Ryun ran the last 300 of a 1500 in 36.5 seconds. The backstretch was under 12 seconds. This was on a dirt track. Winning time was 3:38.2. Final 400 was 50.5 with him running wide on the first curve.

4) You're an idiot.

Here are some other facts.

1- Irrelevant. Ryun ran on synthetic and got no help at all with the better surface. Not even a little bit.

2- Coe ran one 5k in freezing weather and won easily. He beat two guys ( Coghlan and Cova) who were way faster than Ryun over 5k and later World Champions to boot.

3- Coe ran extremely fast relay legs of 400m and was just light years faster over 800-mile. Very similar basic speed.

4- I'm still smarter than you.

ps Coe was even better at getting over illness than Ryun.

1) You have to be a moron to think synthetic gives no benefit. Ron Clarke is on record as saying there is a difference of 1 second per lap. Coe, after years of consideration gave a similar evaluation (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1041345351/bannister-documentary-on-60th-anniversary-of-4-min). Ryun was nowhere near his peak self. So he was never going to run what he was capable of in 1967 years later, even with synthetic tracks. It shows how far off his best he was.

2) Coe never broke 14 minutes for the 5k, Ryun ran an 8:25 2 mile on a dirt track as a 19 year old (read: before his best). Ryun also ran a 13:38 5k in 1972 (well past his best). In no way did Coe have better endurance

3) Moron. It is like you don't even realize you are using circular logic. He had rabbits, even pace, & synthetic tracks. Of course he posted a faster time. Ryun ran the last 300 of a 1500 in 36.5 seconds. The backstretch was under 12 seconds. This was on a dirt track. Winning time was 3:38.2. Final 400 was 50.5 with him running wide on the first curve. Get that through your head.

4) No. I have read the forums enough to read your posts quite a bit. Your last 2 posts in this thread have convinced me that you really are one of the biggest idiots on these forums.

P.S. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome does not go away. Guess you're not smarter than me after all.

He didn't run faster on synthetic. The rest is just defensive emotional bs on your part.

Ryun was at his best at 19. The 8:25 was as good as it was going to get.

Coe was faster and better in every way. Times, medals, his kick, everything.

Chronic fatigue syndrome does go away. I don't have it anymore.

These are your first two posts that I have read and you came out of the gate as a moron and are rapidly descending in intellect.

SMJO wrote:

He didn't run faster on synthetic. The rest is just defensive emotional bs on your part.

Ryun was at his best at 19. The 8:25 was as good as it was going to get.

Coe was faster and better in every way. Times, medals, his kick, everything.

Chronic fatigue syndrome does go away. I don't have it anymore.

These are your first two posts that I have read and you came out of the gate as a moron and are rapidly descending in intellect.

He didn't run faster on synthetic because he was past his best. Synthetic tracks are faster. Ron Clarke who broke more world records on dirt than anyone while also having had the opportunity to compete on synthetic has said this. Coe has said this. These are the facts. Sorry that they don't fit with your deluded world view.

Ryun was at his best at the age of 20. Something else you're wrong about.

The 8:25 was, again, on a dirt track. Try to keep up.

Coe was SLOWER at 5000m. Another fact you're wrong about.

Coe was SLOWER at 2 miles. Yet another fact that you are wrong about.

Coe was SLOWER in speed. Ryun's speed has never been matched in a world class miler. See my above post.

Christ, you are a friggin idiot.

Does anyone else see the irony in SMJO's posts?

In this very thread he has been claiming Lagat could have run a faster 5000 in his prime if he had got in a good, fast paced race.

Now he is arguing the opposite concept. That Ryun could not have run faster in a well paced race in his prime (or on a synthetic track...).

lol

outside observer wrote:

Does anyone else see the irony in SMJO's posts?

In this very thread he has been claiming Lagat could have run a faster 5000 in his prime if he had got in a good, fast paced race.

Now he is arguing the opposite concept. That Ryun could not have run faster in a well paced race in his prime (or on a synthetic track...).

lol

Where did I say Ryun couldn't have went faster? Of course he could have. Just not as much as the crazed fans would have us believe.

Not as fast as Coe either.

I believe Coe beat Rono over two miles as well.

Yeah, he had better endurance than Ryun.

If Ryun is allowed to be "faster" without actually doing so, then Coe's performances over longer distances and who he defeated speak volumes without needing actual fast times either.

But this is getting a bit steered away from Lagat's 12;40 ability.

Ovett beat Rono over 2 miles. Coe did not.

His endurance was not better and the facts support this.

Ryun is "allowed" to be faster because you have to adjust for factors such as dirt tracks, lack of rabbits, uneven pace, etc. Ryun ran under these conditions. Coe ran his best times with rabbits, on a synthetic track, and with even pacing. So he does not get an adjustment. This seems to be a hard concept for you to grasp.

Ryun had faster PRs over 2 miles & 5000m than Coe did. Both ran those times in imperfect conditions. Ryun was faster. Again, these are the facts.

Coe actually beat Rono in his "Toga" race. Likely in early 1982. Pretty sure it was over 2 miles as well.

So beating Coghlan and Cova counts for nothing? Huh.

Coe is "allowed" to be even faster because he missed his prime years with illness.

Sound fair?

Coe's 800m PR was fabricated. "Run" in a completely random meet. Which is not surprising coming from a guy who was very selective about racing and paid a guy to let him win in his last 800.

SMJO wrote:You couldn't even offer anything? You disappoint me

pathetic says it all

I figure if Bernie has slowed down by about 8 seconds per mile and can run 12:53 as an old man his potential was even greater

what is this drivel ?

why not 9 or 10 or 11 ?

utter nonsense

I'll stick with 12:40.

rubbish

so he was 5s faster intrinsically than any guy not called kennster past ~ 10y

utter drivel

only a moron coud think synthetic is not faster than dirt

as stated mononucleosis in '68 finished him

which world beaters he beat in that pathetic 14'06 ?

not in a track race over more than mile

a better indicator of his endurance was that 9.5km x-country in '80 in italy where he came a rubbish 21st, 2'21 behind the winner !

coe's over-distance was rubbish

yeah

like the 45-highs which got his team 6th in '79 europa cup

find where coe ran a 36.5 in a 3'38 ???

drivel

he just quit '83 season & again '87

no wc for him

he wouda had huge difficulty beating either the german in '83 over 800, moreso cram over 1500 & in '87 he wouda had no chance against billy over 800 nor abdi over 1500

missing those 2 big meets hugely impacts his standing

nor did ron clarke you idiot

he ran 27'39wr on dirt

he never came close on synthetics from '68 - '70

his synthetic best was 28'13 in '70

does that mean synthetics made ron slower ???

no

guy nailed it

coe's best 3k was a pathetic 7'54i

Ryun's 8'25 on dirt was already a better intrinsic time

what part of dirt track you don't understand ???

Ryun ran a 36.5 finish in a 3'38.2

coe in moscow ran virtually same final clocking of 3'38.4 but his last 300 was 38.7 !!!

that's a huge 2.2s slower than Ryun over last 300 & like we know, Ryun's was on dirt

show us coe's 36+ in a sub-3'40 ???

we'll post your case in next upcoming veterinary journal

most people with CFS have it for years, usually best part of a decade

it finished guys like ancic, who was last guy to beat fed at wimbo prior to his long streak

coming from a guy who has posted drivel, that is nonsense

SMJO wrote:I believe Coe beat Rono over two miles as well

nonsense

he beat him over a mile in 4'02 v 4'03

hardly earth shattering

Yeah, he had better endurance than Ryun

7'54ipb/14'06 says no

If Ryun is allowed to be "faster" without actually doing so, then Coe's performances over longer distances and who he defeated speak volumes without needing actual fast times either

nonsense

why not bring up the 9.5x country race in italy in '80 where he came 21st ???

who did he beat that day ???

or how about that 4.5x in '79 where he came 40th ???

who did he beat that day ???

But this is getting a bit steered away from Lagat's 12;40 ability

steering away from utter nonsense ?!

laughable !