ukathleticscoach: "Nobody is going to win Olympic Gold then start doping."
I don't know that I agree with this. While what you say might make sense in one rational world, it might not be the case in the real world of some athletes.
In any case, I wouldn't use it as a guide to judge who is doping and who is not, at any given point in time.
ADuck doesn't tell lies like...........lol
wejo wrote:
As for not calling VCB a cheat yet there are few things going on I assume: 1) There had been no confirmation 2) It's her "A" sample 3) It's a diuretic and not a steroid/HGH. 4) She doesn't have a past history for this.
Come on wejo, you are better than this. Just why do you think she would take a diuretic?
And why does past history matter? Did it matter for Regina Jacobs?
Sprintgeezer wrote:
Let me get this straight--
I will take all of those in turn.
First, regarding "conspiracy"--all a conspiracy is, ignoring all the popular negative connotations, is a secret agreement, usually to do something objectionable. In some contexts, concrete planning is required, and preparatory steps taken.
Do you even understand what evidence is? I almost always state what is fact and what is argument, supposition, and suggestion, except when I think it is clearly hyperbolic. Sometimes it might not be so clear, like when I say "clearly she doped". Obviously that is not evidence, or argument--it is pure conjecture.
I always consider evidence to the contrary. ALWAYS. I discuss this stuff ad nauseum, in case you haven't noticed.
You want a fight? Sure, I'll go, if there is actually a fight to be had. About precisely what do you want to fight?
I'm not sure where you're going with this. I don't recall ever having posted specifically on VCB. What we know is that 2 samples tested positive for a banned substance.
There is no reasonable excuse for this. The closest thing would be unknowing sabotage, which is also IMO unreasonable. She is articulate, she has means, she lives in a civilized situation. There can be, and will be, an explanation offered, but there is none that should avoid a ruling that an offense against the rules has been committed.
Again, I don't know if you want to fight about anything in particular.
Wow, this was a very reasonable and well written reply. Perhaps I am throwing you and "just sayin"/"TLW" into the same boat because you agree. But that's not very fair. They are posting condescendingly and frustrating me.
I do still insist that the "guilty until proven innocent" attitude is unfair to the athletes.
Sprintgeezer wrote:
ukathleticscoach: "Nobody is going to win Olympic Gold then start doping."
I don't know that I agree with this. While what you say might make sense in one rational world, it might not be the case in the real world of some athletes.
In any case, I wouldn't use it as a guide to judge who is doping and who is not, at any given point in time.
In the real world they have doped to that gold or not at all
Unless you are the sort of person who believes Jones only started doping in 2000
they're on a program before they get world gold
it's not rocket science like.........
dope gets you there....
and dope keeps you there......
thats how you become a GOAT
and if youre clean
you dont get to beat the dopers at the top
thats how the system works guys
people still dont know i seen it myself
what all these fools on letsrun need to get their heads around
is this....
there's no clean guys beating up on and dominating dopers..
it just doesn't happen
anyone who thinks it does don't know the pro game
just sayin wrote:
thats how anti doping always worked
take down some
but protect the image of the sport
most of the goats get away with it
what are the chances of bolt goin down...........??
slim to none
This is how it is in masters track as well. Take down the annoying ones, let the ones who promote the sport and do volunteer work on USATF committees and such get away with it.
Wow, I think people should really wait for her response before making their judgment. Nothing wrong with hearing both sides of the story before throwing out the accusations.
Just posting this for some people who don't understand how this works:
Diuretics help flush real PEDs out of the system quicker, which is why so many athletes test positive for diuretics.
They are masking agents.
[quote]Skyart wrote:
Wow, I think people should really wait for her response before making their judgment.
We already know her response
You need to wake up
rojo wrote:
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2013/06/two-time-olympic-200-champion-veronica-campbell-brown-reportedly-tests-positive/
Don't be easy on her just because she's a girl. If it was a guy he'd be getting slammed hard.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
'The only relevant statement here is that we can't assume it was a career length thing.'
Nobody is going to win Olympic Gold then start doping
.
You can not possibly know that "nobody" is going to win Olympic Gold then start doping!!? People do all kinds of crazy things. Doping to maintain your level of performance is not "irrational".
Something you need to understand:
Probability of VCB taking PEDs, given positive test for masking agent = (probability of VCB taking masking agent if she also took PEDs) x (prior probability of VCB taking PEDs) / (probability of someone testing positive for masking agent unrelated to PEDs)
I'd say that's about 99.99%. But of course, she will try to convince us that the prior for the masking agent is high, because she just stumbled upon a bottle of furosemide in her mum's fridge and just wanted to know what it tasted like. While the prior that a triple Olympic champion sprinter would take PEDs is close to zero.
A Duck wrote:
TLW wrote:This is reality. I don't like it. Cheating is so rampant in our sport that to win an Olympic medal YOU MUST use PEDs.
That level of the sport is dominated by PED use.
It's the same thing in EVERY sport. Top 10 in Tour de France is the same thing.
Period, end of discussion.
You don't know this, you just decide this without proof.
Yes, drug use has been a problem.
And also, YES, the IAAF, WADA and the IOC have gotten better and better at catching cheats, saving and testing samples further and further back.
I prefer to support their efforts, rather than smear every single athlete.
If you believe that about the sport, then stop following it and go away.
But, I bet you have a favorite pet athlete or two that you believe is clean. Otherwise what idiot would follow a sport that they believe is completely dirty. Huh?
I've been avidly following track & field since 1966. To believe the top contemporary athletes are not doping - given the evidence of the past 25 or so years - is simply astonishing. It's a willful blindness, just like all the folks who insisted Lance A was clean. To finish in the top three in any major international competition (World Championship, Olympics) is impossible without doping. I don't understand how so many still stubbornly persist in believing it's possible to be a top competitor without resorting to PEDS. The only athletes who win a medal are the ones who cheat - it's that simple. Please wake up and face the horrible facts. Our sport has been desecrated irrevocably by cheaters, and I doubt it will ever recover from the damage that's been done by these frauds. It's shameful, and very, very sad.
stupefied by your naivete wrote:
I've been avidly following track & field since 1966. To believe the top contemporary athletes are not doping - given the evidence of the past 25 or so years - is simply astonishing. It's a willful blindness, just like all the folks who insisted Lance A was clean. To finish in the top three in any major international competition (World Championship, Olympics) is impossible without doping. I don't understand how so many still stubbornly persist in believing it's possible to be a top competitor without resorting to PEDS. The only athletes who win a medal are the ones who cheat - it's that simple. Please wake up and face the horrible facts. Our sport has been desecrated irrevocably by cheaters, and I doubt it will ever recover from the damage that's been done by these frauds. It's shameful, and very, very sad.
Here's a fact: anyone who states categorically that they know the top three in any competition are all frauds without any thought whatsoever is completely disconnected from reality.
Lance was never tested positive. Zero , nada. He was hung out like a cheap suit.
Diuretic's are directly connected , its a bit like saying there's never smoke with fire , there is always smoke with fire.
No past history , well most druggies don't have it until they are busted. There is confirmed drug history with the small circle of Jamaican track women though.
Let me--
We're good. I agree it's unfair to clean athletes, but that's life.
I still think this sucks.
Wahoo's wrote:
Lance was never tested positive. Zero , nada. ...
Wrong.