Wejo (and others): Tell me why Paula wasn't a doper.

Empiricism wrote:

Wejo, I'm assuming you know her pretty well. I'm not accusing her of doping. But with any world record holder, the suspicion is there. The fact she's never run well in the Olympics doesn't help her case. What can you say to convince those with the "guilty until proven innocent" that Paula was/is clean.

You answered your own question in the first sentence. The reason Paula isn't a drug cheat in the BroJos' mind is because they know her. Because they met her, they became huge fans, just as most people do when they meet somebody famous. Any objectivity went right out the window. Not trying to hate. I like the BroJos. But they seem to have been star-struck by Paula.

I didn't read this whole thread but I believe she gave blood samples to be stored for the future so that when new tests became available they could go back and test for those drugs. Sounds legit to me.

I've met Paula, and i've met el guerrouj, both incredibly nice people who i idolised for years. Do I think el guerrouj was on drugs, given what we know about his compadre kaouch? Sadly, yes. Do i think Paula is/was on drugs? Absolutely not. In fact even though i have no way of knowing for absolute certain i'd genuinely stake my life that she's clean.

ffffdddd wrote:

Do I think el guerrouj was on drugs, given what we know about his compadre kaouch?

I'm just about certain that Koauch was no longer working with Kada by the time he was winning races in 2007 and got busted.

Clowns of the Purple Sage wrote:

One of the reasons people have a hard time thinking Paula's 2:15 marathon is clean is because we still think guys with 2:15 or 2:16 PRs should be subsidized pro runners. Maybe they shouldn't be.

That's a very good point. 2.15.25 by a 28 year old woman isn't as good as 2.03.59 by a 35 year old man.

So where are the frozen blood and urine that Radcliffe gave up? I call bull shit on this urban legend. If they exist when wil they be tested? What a joke, no other woman has come within ~ 4 minutes in how many years? Imagine if not one man ran faster than 2:07:38 since Geb ran 2:03:59. Please come on people, it's the dope!

Paula's been out of action for 19 months not counting bupa london race. I never hear any racing from her.

I agree. She isn't racing enough to get back into serious condition for London 2012.

Tightness wrote:

So where are the frozen blood and urine that Radcliffe gave up? I call bull shit on this urban legend. If they exist when wil they be tested? What a joke, no other woman has come within ~ 4 minutes in how many years? Imagine if not one man ran faster than 2:07:38 since Geb ran 2:03:59. Please come on people, it's the dope!

Freezing samples is not enough to keep them from degrading. You need an absolute zero freezer.

1 2:15:25 Paula Radcliffe GBR 17.12.73 1 London 13.04.2003

2 2:17:18 Paula Radcliffe GBR 17.12.73 1 Chicago 13.10.2002

3 2:17:42 Paula Radcliffe GBR 17.12.73 1 London 17.04.2005

4 2:18:47 Catherine N'dereba KEN 21.07.72 1 Chicago 07.10.2001

5 2:18:56 Paula Radcliffe GBR 17.12.73 1 London 14.04.2002

6 2:19:12 Mizuki Noguchi JPN 03.07.78 1 Berlin 25.09.2005

7 2:19:19 Irina Mikitenko GER 23.08.72 1 Berlin 28.09.2008

7 2:19:19 Mary Keitany KEN 18.01.82 1 London 17.04.2011

9 2:19:26 Catherine N'dereba KEN 21.07.72 2 Chicago 13.10.2002

10 2:19:36 Deena Kastor USA 14.02.73 1 London 23.04.2006

11 2:19:39 Sun Yingjie CHN 03.10.77 1 Beijing 19.10.2003

12 2:19:41 Yoko Shibui JPN 14.03.79 1 Berlin 26.09.2004

13 2:19:46 Naoko Takahashi JPN 06.05.72 1 Berlin 30.09.2001

14 2:19:51 Zhou Chunxiu CHN 15.11.78 1 Seoul 12.03.2006

15 2:19:55 Catherine N'dereba KEN 21.07.72 2 London 13.04.2003

16 2:20:15 Liliya Shobukhova RUS 13.11.77 2 London 17.04.2011

17 2:20:25 Liliya Shobukhova RUS 13.11.77 1 Chicago 10.10.2010

18 2:20:38 Zhou Chunxiu CHN 15.11.78 1 London 21.04.2007

19 2:20:42 Berhane Adere ETH 21.07.73 1 Chicago 22.10.2006

20 2:20:43 Tegla Loroupe KEN 09.05.73 1 Berlin 26.09.1999

20 2:20:43a Margaret Okayo KEN 30.05.76 1 Boston 15.04.2002

22 2:20:46 Esther Kiplagat KEN 08.12.66 3 London 17.04.2011

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

some drugs improve recovery and therefore allow dopers to work harder. Many of us have to back off frequently because we're on the brink of injury, so we can't do nearly as many hard runs as we'd like to do. I don't know whether Radcliffe doped, but I know that the defense "s/he works harder than anyone else" don't disprove drug use at all, because drug use may make that possible.

I don't go along with this argument that drugs help an athlete to train harder. There is nothing stopping any of us from training harder if we have the right build up. Progressively increasing the workload over a long period of time. And having the common sense to know when to back off.

Say Word wrote:

Empiricism wrote:

Wejo, I'm assuming you know her pretty well. I'm not accusing her of doping. But with any world record holder, the suspicion is there. The fact she's never run well in the Olympics doesn't help her case. What can you say to convince those with the "guilty until proven innocent" that Paula was/is clean.

You answered your own question in the first sentence. The reason Paula isn't a drug cheat in the BroJos' mind is because they know her. Because they met her, they became huge fans, just as most people do when they meet somebody famous. Any objectivity went right out the window. Not trying to hate. I like the BroJos. But they seem to have been star-struck by Paula.

One thing I have noticed when watching the Fatest Loser TV reality show.

The fatest people are incredibly eloquent. They are passionate about their challenges, they tell a great story. A tear may almost fall listening to them. They've become great at convincing themselves that they are one of the righteous. Like dopers.

I don't get so tied up with her WB (World Best) being so far out there. There are always issues with course lengthes? Maybe it was short? Like SAalazar when he set the WB at Boston and it was measured about 165 m short.

And remember that not all world records are equal. 2:15 women's marathon is not equal to 9:58. It may show up in the points scale that way, but those scales are constantly adjusted. The Men's 100 m is a way more mature event than the Women's anything.

She seems to be injured a lot. I personally think her tiome is done. People who are extreme in dragging performance from their bodies tend to flare and fade. I think she's one of those.

I also think that the Women's distance records are weak.

bobonuts wrote:

I don't get so tied up with her WB (World Best) being so far out there. There are always issues with course lengthes? Maybe it was short? Like SAalazar when he set the WB at Boston and it was measured about 165 m short.

The London course was most definitely NOT short. More likely the standard procedure of adding an extra 42 meters to ensure it wasn't a short course, made the course about 42 meters long.

Against the I wrote:

She's incredibly outspoken against doping.

Let me guess, she's also incredibly warm and does incredible charity work.

And you're incredibly naive.

Why would Wejo know Paula well at all? He paced her for one race? Despite all the junkets and reporting they do on this site, the Brojos remain distinct outsiders to that level of the sport. Nobody is spilling the beans about anyone's doping to these guys.

Van West wrote:

The fact that she's made herself available for testing wherever and whenever, and has welcomed having her blood frozen for future, more advanced testing methods, serves as evidence that she's got nothing to hide.

No guilty athlete would ever do that.

Unless she knew the system well enough to know that her offers couldn't be met under said system. It's a completely phony offer, submitted to dupe the gullible sycophants in the media and the public. In that case, it's a well-orchestrated publicity campaign designed to put out a certain image, probably to combat apparent reality.

J.O. wrote:

bobonuts wrote:

I don't get so tied up with her WB (World Best) being so far out there. There are always issues with course lengthes? Maybe it was short? Like SAalazar when he set the WB at Boston and it was measured about 165 m short.

The London course was most definitely NOT short. More likely the standard procedure of adding an extra 42 meters to ensure it wasn't a short course, made the course about 42 meters long.

Its been measured multiple times using different measuring tools.

marrow2000 wrote:

She's also had her blood FROZEN for future advanced tests.

What more do you people need to accept that she didn't dope?

Frozen blood means nothing if she submitted it when she knew the metabolites would have completely exited her system already. You do have an understanding of how quickly EPO metabolizes in humans, don't you?

What more do you myopic sycophants need to accept that what you claim as proof is designed to mislead you?

Except that doping reduces the need to "back off." It takes your build up above what it would naturally be. Taking something that speeds recovery lets you train hard more often. Regardless of whether you "go along with" it, that's simply an indisputable fact.

J.O. wrote:

I don't go along with this argument that drugs help an athlete to train harder. There is nothing stopping any of us from training harder if we have the right build up. Progressively increasing the workload over a long period of time. And having the common sense to know when to back off.

Runningart2004 wrote:

Doping isn't cheating if EVERYONE is doing it.

Only if you believe in mob rule over the rule of law. Other unrepentant dopers have offered similar rationalizations.