Quincey - Greatest 400 ever

Sweetie, why are you focusing on the split disparity issue? My bigger disagreement with you concerns your awarding 1 second per lap for drafting and 1 second per lap for a dirt track, meaning that if Ron Clarke ran 27:39 solo on a cinder track that you would give him a 26:50 if somehow he could sit on somebody for 24 laps on a synthetic track. You really believe that? More importantly, do you have EVIDENCE do support such a contention, darling?

jjjjjj wrote:I saw Steve Lewis win the Meet of Champions (the meet for northern California prior to hs states) in Berkeley at Edwards stadium in 1987 in 46.3. One of the all time great talents, no question. But who would have thought it possible to drop from 46.3 to 43.87 that quickly, in a year? We know that the group was doing steroids, so probably him too.

eh ?

he finished year as a 45.76 guy

re-input that into your disbelief

jennifer cruz wrote:

Sweetie, why are you focusing on the split disparity issue? My bigger disagreement with you concerns your awarding 1 second per lap for drafting and 1 second per lap for a dirt track, meaning that if Ron Clarke ran 27:39 solo on a cinder track that you would give him a 26:50 if somehow he could sit on somebody for 24 laps on a synthetic track. You really believe that?

yes it is perfectly possible for him to have run 26:50 with perfect drafting to 24 laps

no different from moorcroft with theoretical 12:48 possibilty if he had followed africans gun to tape current day - fastest ever solo 5k is 12:55 by menjo

More importantly, do you have EVIDENCE do support such a contention, darling?

go fetch it in the archives - i have told you what to search for enough times, but you are too f***ing stoopid to find it

i do not do grunt work for piss-ants

All my research in the archives has been able to unearth thus far is that you have your head up your ass...

unsurprisingly

a piss-ant retard

I want proof and there is NO PROOF in the archives because none exists. IT is all your conjecture which is rather symptomatic of your empty head. Plug in a few number, and voila, we have 1 second per lap. EXACTLY 1 second. This is like the world being made in 7 days. It is absurd, simple, childlike thinking...

moron

you are obviously too f***ing stoopid to have found it in archives

the actual perfect drafting for 3:30 races is nearly 2s/lap

1s/lap is a conservative estimate

f*** off idiot & look harder if you numbskull can

ventolin^3 wrote:

the actual perfect drafting for 3:30 races is nearly 2s/lap

Yes, it is now nearly 2 seconds per lap. After you down another drink, my guess is it may begin to approach 3 seconds per lap...Is there any end to your nonsense?

idiot

perfect drafting approaches 2s/lap, meaning runner virtually inseparable from wabbit

1s/lap has always been my offering as best possible in real life - see bile drafting in 1985 ( do you even have a clue which race ?? )

to understand this, go fetch this asshole :

what is fastest solo 1500 ever run ?

you have offered me nothing factually here

prove to me you are not complete total dogshit on my boot

fetch it or shut the f*** up

ventolin^3 wrote:

perfect drafting approaches 2s/lap, meaning runner virtually inseparable from wabbit

Inseparable from wabbit? Weally? Is this wealistic? In the weal world?

ventolin^3 wrote:

Hirohito wrote:Steve Lewis stopped using drugs because he accomplished his goal

you are a f***ing idiot

you think his attitude after winning was :

"jeez, shucks, i am 19y & won gold

i will stop the method i have used to get to this goal as i have accomplished all that can be achieved in the 400m"

How did Kevin Young do after 92-93?

How did Flo Jo do after 88?

How did Paula Ivan do after 88-89?

Ventolin, you really, really need to get some medication quickly, you are monkey-butt insane.

And yet none of them can make 43.71 into 43.17. They are just playing with numbers. Until someone actually goes out and runs the time, they dont mean dick.

(By the way, you know what else is frequently posted here? The opinion that you are completely, bat-shit crazy. Im starting to see why.)

You mean the 10k Junxia ran under international drug testing in 30:49? Yes, that was excellent. Then, less than month later under Chinese drug testing at the Chinese National Championships, she ran over a full minute faster.

Thats quite an improvement. In fact, even scaled for distance, that completely dwarfs Quincy Watts 1.5 seconds in one year at 400. So by your logic, she clearly must have worked... what... 100 times harder? 200 times harder? than Watts? Because she did it in just those few weeks.

She even ran that fastest ever 5k of hers (14:26) in the second half of that 10k. Then she ran her world record 3000. Then she never even came REMOTELY close to any of those times again. Ever. Not in a time-trialed race and not when she was winning medals.

But we should attribute this all to hard work, right? Because as you said...

No, only an idiot sticks sticks his head in the sand and prefers an internet calculator to what happened in the real world. Kinda like the genius who dismisses performances that dont fit his pet theory with talk of "illegal tracks".

What a shame they dont just calculate the times on the internet and hand out gold medals then.

No you just arent very good at reading comprehsnsion. It can be judged from the fastest 5k they ever actually ran.. Really, how many times must this be repeated to you before it begins to sink in?

Kenenisa Bekele is a 12:37 5k runner. Because he has run that time. For real. In the real world. Not in a calculator. I dont waste time on what he "might have been THAT day". Hes a 12:37 guy. Until he runs faster. Case closed.

Looks like someones been googling! (Oh wait, no doubt you had all of that committed to memory right?)

You never answered the question. So answer the fucking question. What was illegal about the Atlanta track? Answer it. Tell me who measured it "crux factor" and what they came up with I assume Jesus Dapena must have done so right.

No it doesnt detract from his 43.71. It is, intrinsically ... 43.71. No faster. Quite a bit slower than Johnsons world record. They dont hand out world records for "in your opinion". They hand them out for what was run.

So, in answer to my question, no you dont know a thing about his training. And your speculation, like all the rest of this shit you are spewing, is just you talking out of your ass. Thanks for clearing that up.

Actually it is far MORE likely that he took drugs. Unless you want to tell me what "hard workers" Ben Johnson and Tim Montgomery and Marion Jones were? Doesnt mean he actually took drugs. Just that if were talking "likelihood" here Occams Razor sure as shit doesnt point to "hard work"

Ben Johnson ran the fastest 400 meters ever. Quincy Watts did not. Is that basic enough for you?

Thinker wrote:

Ben Johnson ran the fastest 400 meters ever.

Meant Michael Johnson

While Ventolin is batshit insane, he makes an interesting point about the instrinsic nature of track and field. We certainly are allowed to compare performances across the board. And there might be instances where a run could actually be better than a world record. I am no scientist, but the debate seems logical. I mean, what is the best ever XC performance? Was it Kenny?, was it Paul?, was it Ngugi? or even Virgin or Pre? These are all intrinsic correlations that are impossible to prove, but for the true track fan, they are fun to hypothesize. I will say this, that after seeing both races from the stands, I will say that Watts slower time was way more impressive than MJs record run. If you were there for both, in person, you would undoubtedly agree. That is not saying it would have been faster( prob wouldnt have been) but, it was more impressive. Just my two cents. Oh and Mrs Cruz, would you like to have an affair?

jennifer cruz wrote:Inseparable from wabbit? Weally? Is this wealistic? In the weal world?

yes moron

go fetch the links in the archives or shut the f*** up

Hirohito wrote:How did Kevin Young do after 92-93?

How did Flo Jo do after 88?

How did Paula Ivan do after 88-89?

Ventolin, you really, really need to get some medication quickly, you are monkey-butt insane.

idiot

lewis was not same as those 3

2 of them achieved everything & ivan was 25 in seoul not 19

ventolin^3 wrote:

lewis was not same as those 3

You mean Lewis was a different person?

Deep, Ventolin, deep.

you are an idiot

there calculators do not claim to find relative inefficiencies in a performance - they compare performances

are you so stoopid you do not relaise this ??

"playing" with numbers ?

you are a moron

there work is held in high esteem in many quarters here & elsewhere

moron

they ran to win world titles & put in whatever required for that - from ease of wins it did not seem like much effort

clearly in national games they wanted clockings

kennster ran 27:08 to win helsinki

are you such a moron that you believe that was all he couda run day ???

moron

it means she won stuttgart hardly out of 2nd gear

get a clue moron

i am only interested in 93

you are still biggest moron around here - you still believe the 2nd half of a 10k represents the "true" 5k ability of an athlete

you are a complete idiot

like i said, only an idiot talks about drugs

so not unexpected from your part

moron

you clearly no nothing about the history of the sport

debate has been going on about atlanta track since 96

you have not got a clue about some of the more interesting debates in the sport

my god

how much of a moron are you if this is your "thinking"

imbecile

wang did not run a 5k race in 93

1.3 billion chinese woud be very interested to have an idea what she couda done that week in a 5k race

offer them something or f*** off back to your remedial class

moron

by your method he is a 13:08 guy as that is all he coud run for 2nd 1/2 of his 10k

that simply is the dumbest f***ing statement i have ever read

it is cringingly embarassing

i still can not believe there is an idiot dumb enough on these boards to have offered it

moron

just because you do not know one of the most respected analysts in the sport, it does not mean others are also unfamiliar with him

i have had a handful of internet exchanges with him over the years & he has been very helpful

he is the chief analyst for t&f news & they have commisioned him to do reserch in the past - look up his work on starting gun offering some hundredths advantage to sprinter in lane 1 compared to 8 in 100m race at a previous olympics

learn something of depth idiot

learn to read moron

the guy in charge of track laying in atlanta was a former pupil of dapena & he invited dapena to see it whilst it was being layed - dapena was also present when they tore it up & he took a portion of it as a memento

his comment was that it was "borderline" & left it at that

it is clear you have no f***ing clue about track construction as you do not even know what physical aspect of the track i am talking about

moron

you do not have a clue

43.71 with only real hard running done in the 100 - 200 stretch means it is significantly intrinsically faster than 43.71

are you so f***ing dumb you cannot understand this ???

moron

he got a gold medal for his eventual run

we are talking about his intrinsic merit compared to guys before/after him & that is based on analysis of his best calibre run - his 43.71

moron

i am not interested in specifics of his traing

i am interested in intensity of effort he put in which to take a barely <45 guy to 43.50 in 1y logically indicates possibly the greatest intensity training ever by a 400 guy in 1y

clearly, as a moron, you have no grasp of logic

moron

there musta been a dozen+ barely <45 guys in the world in 91

how come only he went to 43.5 the next year as by your lunacy they all had access to drugs ???

no moron

i am interested in far deeper concepts like intrinsic vale of an athlete when they run to their absolute limit

if all you are interested in is reciting the all-time lists, then f*** off & stop wasting my time

No scientific table is going to prove that someone who made something look "easy" make them better at the distance during that day during a "hard" effort.