The Canadian Running Thread

I thought your eyes were gouged out!

Hahahaha......not yet........

...and this... wrote:

I thought your eyes were gouged out!

Skuj wrote:

Shall I start bumping some of those pre 27:23 posts again for your enlightenment? They deserved the mockery. See page 5. (And which former handle are you?)

Maybe this time, instead of bumping apparently random posts, you can bump posts which specifically stated Bairu would not break the 10K record.

(P.S. I couldn't find any, though there were several that suggested he could break the record.)

Skuj wrote:

And now a prediction:

Simon Bairu will set National Records for 5000m, 10000m and Half Marathon in 2010. You heard it here first. He turned a corner with his 13th place run at WXC.

rsb wrote:

And the fact that Athletics Canada has given up on support for events longer than 1500 metres is not helpful, to say the least.

How much of the US equivalent of carding funding has Solinsky received enroute to his 26:59?

Aren't the Portland crew doing exactly what you and many others have been ranting about? A bunch of good runners get together, have a good coach, get some private funding, and train their asses off.

What's USATF done for them that Athletics Canada couldn't or wouldn't?

It's got nothing to do with the governing body, so maybe instead of bitching about being held back by 'the man', those coaches and athletes who truly care about the sport should do something productive.

rsb wrote:

I happen to have more than a "modicum of running knowledge.. As a 40 year veteran coach, at the Olympic and World Championship level, I know full well (as Skuj. does) that the primary energy systems that need to be recruited to run very fast in the 5K, the 10K, and the Half-Marathon are virtually identical. Obviously a bit more leg speed for the 5K, and a bit more long endurance work for the 1/2 marathon, but that's a given to anyone with any knowledge of the sport, whatsoever... I would suggest that if the right racing incentives were present, running fast at any distance between 5K and the 1/2 would be almost automatic. We all know the Marathon is a bit of a different beast...

With your illustrious coaching resume, I'm sure you are aware that the "primary energy systems" are the same for ALL running events. Perhaps since you were specifically referring to the 5K/10K/HM troika, you meant the singular "primary energy system" instead of the plural. That certainly makes more sense.

However, that energy system is also the primary one for an event such as the 800m. Are you going to tell me all the 800 runner needs is "a bit more leg speed"? Of course not. That event has significantly different physiological demands than a HM, for example. All of the energy systems are in play albeit at different contribution levels.

The same is true for events as disparate as the 5K and HM. Sure they are both highly aerobic, but the 5K has not insignificant anaerobic contributions not required for the HM. Sure there will be similarities in training for both events, but there will also be differences.

You may train your 5K/10K/HM runners all the same way. That's your prerogative. Maybe that's even the best way. But I don't think so and I'm training my 5K runners differently than my HM ones.

Northern Realist wrote:You may train your 5K/10K/HM runners all the same way. That's your prerogative. Maybe that's even the best way. But I don't think so and I'm training my 5K runners differently than my HM ones.

I don't that's what old Ronny was saying. I think he was simply saying that there is significant crossover between these events, and therefore it's possible to be in very good shape for all three distances at nealy the same, with relatively subtle changes required to focus toward goal races at the specific distances. If any changes are required at all, frankly, since it's surely possible to race close to your 5k best when in peak HM condition (although easier for some "types" of runners than others, or runers with certain training backgrounds).

No doubt there is crossover, but to be in national record shape for each event would require, in my opinion, some significant refinement focused on each particular event. This type of enhancement to the training is time consuming and would make it difficult, if not impossible, to make serious attempts on all three records in the same calendar year. I don't think being in "very good shape for all three distances" at the same time is the same as being in national record shape for all three.Now add to this the common perception that Bairu would be training for a 2010 fall marathon and the likelihood of achieving 5K/10/HM records in 2010 becomes increasingly miniscule. Given these circumstances, it was ridiculous for anyone to predict he would earn the 5K, 10K, and HM records in a matter of months.

some dude wrote:

I don't that's what old Ronny was saying. I think he was simply saying that there is significant crossover between these events, and therefore it's possible to be in very good shape for all three distances at nealy the same, with relatively subtle changes required to focus toward goal races at the specific distances. If any changes are required at all, frankly, since it's surely possible to race close to your 5k best when in peak HM condition (although easier for some "types" of runners than others, or runers with certain training backgrounds).

Northern Realist wrote:(1) ...to be in national record shape for each event would require, in my opinion, some significant refinement focused on each particular event. ... I don't think being in "very good shape for all three distances" at the same time is the same as being in national record shape for all three.

(2) Now add to this the common perception that Bairu would be training for a 2010 fall marathon and the likelihood of achieving 5K/10/HM records in 2010 becomes increasingly miniscule. Given these circumstances, it was ridiculous for anyone to predict he would earn the 5K, 10K, and HM records in a matter of months.

(1) I disagree. Given he just ran 27:23, and from his own words he's been running heavy mileage, if he raced a flat, fast half in 2-3 weeks he should be able to lower Scheibler's 1:01:28. In theory, he should be able to go out and pop a 5000 NR too, but there's where I doubt he'd be able to nip the 13:13, given he's a strength runner putting in heavy miles. But I'd love to see him give it a shot.

(2) I also agree Skuj's initial prediction to be ridiculous, but he may prove us all wrong yet... :-)

some dude wrote:

(1) I disagree. Given he just ran 27:23, and from his own words he's been running heavy mileage, if he raced a flat, fast half in 2-3 weeks he should be able to lower Scheibler's 1:01:28. In theory, he should be able to go out and pop a 5000 NR too, but there's where I doubt he'd be able to nip the 13:13, given he's a strength runner putting in heavy miles. But I'd love to see him give it a shot.

(2) I also agree Skuj's initial prediction to be ridiculous, but he may prove us all wrong yet... :-)

I'd have to side with these. The 5000m record is a push and I think he'd be more likely to get the half record. Maybe if all the stars align right, but he has decided to debut in the marathon this fall so that likely throws out everything else. I'm pretty sure he can get the records, just not all this year.

some dude wrote:

(1) I disagree. Given he just ran 27:23, and from his own words he's been running heavy mileage, if he raced a flat, fast half in 2-3 weeks he should be able to lower Scheibler's 1:01:28. In theory, he should be able to go out and pop a 5000 NR too, but there's where I doubt he'd be able to nip the 13:13, given he's a strength runner putting in heavy miles. But I'd love to see him give it a shot.

You make valid points. The elephant on his back, however, is the impending marathon and associated training. Too bad we may never get to see him make an attempt at those other records....at least not (likely) this year.

some dude wrote:

(2) I also agree Skuj's initial prediction to be ridiculous, but he may prove us all wrong yet... :-)

It certainly was ridiculous given Bairu's plans for a fall marathon. What was Skuj thinking? Truthfully he probably wasn't thinking. No surprise there. :-) Yes he still could be right, but I'm betting heavily against him.

I used to wonder why people didn't seem to like you on this board. Now I get it.

You would be better served to gloat in private because you are coming off as incredibly juvenile. It is unbecoming for a 48 year old man.

p.s. "irregardless" is not a word.

The 800 is a red herring, and of course I didn't include that in the discussion about events between 5000 metres and the Half Marathon. The amount of pure speed + anaerobic training required to run a max. 800 metres is clearly in a different league than the events we were talking about. So back to those events, I still maintain that relatively minor adjustments in training can produce really fast runs over distances between 5K and the Half.

We know that guys who finish high at the 12K. distance at World Cross-country in late March, can all run fast on the track at 5K and 10K within a few months, and could certainly run a fast 1/2 Marathon at any point in there.

I would take it a step further, and suggest that the vast majority of training could be almost identical for some athletes in those events. Yes, there will be individual strengths and weaknesses that need to be considered in training program design. Frankly, I don't know what Bairu's "basic speed" is like. I don't mean flat-out sprint speed, but does anyone know what he can or has run for 800 / 1000 / 1500 / and/or other under-distance events?

rsb wrote:

does anyone know what he can or has run for 800 / 1000 / 1500 / and/or other under-distance events?

1500m: 3:45.25 (Liege, 2007)

Is Bairu a Canadian citizen? I know he was born in Saudi Arabia and eventually moved to Canada. When did he naturalize?

Canuckster wrote:

I used to wonder why people didn't seem to like you on this board. Now I get it.

You would be better served to gloat in private because you are coming off as incredibly juvenile. It is unbecoming for a 48 year old man.

p.s. "irregardless" is not a word.

Holy crow, is Skuj actually 48?? I would have laid down money that he's 15, 20 tops.

Skuj wrote:

I'm 48.

But rather than celebrate the huge record/pb, and talk about the huge jump he made this year (which I knew was coming after he set a goal of top 10 at WXC), you bitches just want to crucify and mock.

You are 48?! Your spamming behaviour on this board makes you seem less than half that.

Get it straight: I DID celebrate the record. I still am. It is inspiring my running. But you singing "I told you so" ad nauseum makes it seem like you're more excited about getting (part of) a prediction right than you are about the actual performance.

If you're going to cry about being mocked, think first before repeatedly calling others "bitches," big man. Think.

rsb wrote:

Choose your battles, skuj...

As much fun as this place can be, and as much knowledge as some of the posters have, you will spend too much of your vital life energy debating with guys whose biggest issue is what type of Acne medication they should be taking... "LetsRun - pimples are us"... go kids, go!!!

Skuj wrote:

Hahahaha....

Ron, I love what you are doing in light of the recent AC "committment" to the "key" events, and Gardiner's Big Boo Boo. Go get 'em, Tiger. Many many people are seeing your leadership in this. Thank you.

And, as you know, this is therapy for me right now, LOL! It helps.

Do you guys want to get a room?

rsb wrote:

the primary energy systems that need to be recruited to run very fast in the 5K, the 10K, and the Half-Marathon are virtually identical.

Bernard Lagat wrote:

Hi. I have a 12:59 in the 5k, and I think I can take that down by at least a few seconds.

What do you think I can do for the half marathon?

Skuj wrote:

About 59:50 if you taper and race a flat one this weekend.

I cannot imagine the volume of crack you must have inhaled before writing this. - Bernie