Jakob loses championships because of his stupid insistence on running “honorably” i.e. from the front, not because he can’t kick. Make a speedster like Cole lead at a fast pace for 1400m and he’ll get dropped the same way Jakob did in Paris. When you run that way, you make yourself the only one who doesn’t have a pacer. It’s a massive disadvantage.
Tactics are his problem, not training.
how do you get 100 upvotes
everyone knows he has to lead because his kick is worse than others
how is he going to "make" cole lead? at gunpoint?
the only thing jakob hasn't tried at this point is kicking from 600-900 out
LOL how about instead of downvotes you learn to form a sentence and reply.
the same people saying, "you don't know more about training than jakob does" think they know more about race tactics than jakob does.
if he could get faster doing speedwork, he would have done it.
if he could win sitting and kicking, he would have done it.
if you guys can't see past your own hypocrisy there's no helping you.
None of that matters. All that matters is that Jakob’s PR is less than a second ahead of a dude who is 1) improving at a faster rate, 2) a year younger, 3) was impeded in his PR and 4) ran his PR as his 3rd race in 5 days.
Was Jakob garbage away ahead? Yes. Is he now? No.
The evidence would indicate that on both of their best days, Cole would be even closer than his 0.9 delta.
How is Hocker improving at a faster rate? What does his age have anything to do with this? He was barely impeded and would have closed at about the same speed regardless. These guys are fit enough that the two other heat/semi races barely have an impact. No, the evidence indicates that in a time trial, Hocker is nowhere close to Jakob, which you claimed the opposite of in your original post.
How is a PR within 0.9 seconds nowhere close? What’s the threshold for close so we are on the same page? 0.1? 0.2?
Please provide your definition of close because most of us are probably not savvy enough to know that close only means a lean at the tape.
Hocker is improving at a faster rate because Jakob has been training at a world class level for a very long time and thus has gotten closer to his highest potential earlier.
In 2019, when Jakob was competing the world championships as a 3:31 runner, Hocker was 20 seconds slower. In 2023, when Jakob was a 3:27 low 1500m runner, Hocker was over 3 seconds faster than Cole. In 2024, that gap is less than a second.
You know exactly what improving at a faster rate means.
Age matters because younger runners are generally further away from their ultimate peak. Jakob has improved each year. So has Hocker etc.
It’s quite likely Hocker could be more talented than Jakob.
On a comparative age basis, Hocker has run 3:27.6 to Jakob’s 3:27.1 at the same age. Hocker of course has only has a ton of injuries in his seasons though.
How is Hocker improving at a faster rate? What does his age have anything to do with this? He was barely impeded and would have closed at about the same speed regardless. These guys are fit enough that the two other heat/semi races barely have an impact. No, the evidence indicates that in a time trial, Hocker is nowhere close to Jakob, which you claimed the opposite of in your original post.
How is a PR within 0.9 seconds nowhere close? What’s the threshold for close so we are on the same page? 0.1? 0.2?
Please provide your definition of close because most of us are probably not savvy enough to know that close only means a lean at the tape.
Hocker is improving at a faster rate because Jakob has been training at a world class level for a very long time and thus has gotten closer to his highest potential earlier.
In 2019, when Jakob was competing the world championships as a 3:31 runner, Hocker was 20 seconds slower. In 2023, when Jakob was a 3:27 low 1500m runner, Hocker was over 3 seconds faster than Cole. In 2024, that gap is less than a second.
You know exactly what improving at a faster rate means.
Age matters because younger runners are generally further away from their ultimate peak. Jakob has improved each year. So has Hocker etc.
It’s quite likely Hocker could be more talented than Jakob.
On a comparative age basis, Hocker has run 3:27.6 to Jakob’s 3:27.1 at the same age. Hocker of course has only has a ton of injuries in his seasons though.
More talented just slower and less wins at every point in his career, interesting.
How is a PR within 0.9 seconds nowhere close? What’s the threshold for close so we are on the same page? 0.1? 0.2?
Please provide your definition of close because most of us are probably not savvy enough to know that close only means a lean at the tape.
Hocker is improving at a faster rate because Jakob has been training at a world class level for a very long time and thus has gotten closer to his highest potential earlier.
In 2019, when Jakob was competing the world championships as a 3:31 runner, Hocker was 20 seconds slower. In 2023, when Jakob was a 3:27 low 1500m runner, Hocker was over 3 seconds faster than Cole. In 2024, that gap is less than a second.
You know exactly what improving at a faster rate means.
Age matters because younger runners are generally further away from their ultimate peak. Jakob has improved each year. So has Hocker etc.
It’s quite likely Hocker could be more talented than Jakob.
On a comparative age basis, Hocker has run 3:27.6 to Jakob’s 3:27.1 at the same age. Hocker of course has only has a ton of injuries in his seasons though.
More talented just slower and less wins at every point in his career, interesting.
Another dumb post.
If an older person has a 7 year head start on training and racing, you could be more talented but less accomplished.
Hocker just won the Olympics. Beating Jakob. It’s not far fetched. Your “most talented” guy finished 4th despite a 6/7 year head start on training.
I agree. Unless Jakob comes to the final in WR fitness, I don't see him taking another 1500 World/Olympic title unless he somehow gains more leg speed or the other top guys fail to advance to the final. Jakob can't let the pace dawdle, so he has to push. But unless he can make it hot the whole time, he'll get dropped. But too hot and it will be Paris 2.0. Unfortunately for Jakob, I think he's screwed and will never get the 1500/5000 double that he so clearly wants
I think if Jakob had run the half during his base phase, he could have hit 60 or faster. But by the end of the season there was no way. His long run disappears in his competition phase and his base long run isn't even that long in the first place.
I recall they were somewhat better than 63 minutes over a HM and not bad over the marathon either.
You don't seem to remember Jakob being somewhat better than them in every distance under 5000m.
So? Rudisha, Michael Johnson and Bolt were better than Ingebrigtsen at every distance from the 800 down. Bekele and Kipchoge were better at everything from 5k up. And El G was better over 1500/mile.
For a 3k guy as well. And for a 1 mile and for a 1500m guy too. No one in the current crop is any faster over the distance.
You mistake prs for speed. Jakob doesn't have the top-end speed - which translates as kick - to other guys in the 1500/mile. That's why he now loses to them. This is no longer a controversial point. The question is how does he counter that.
I think if Jakob had run the half during his base phase, he could have hit 60 or faster. But by the end of the season there was no way. His long run disappears in his competition phase and his base long run isn't even that long in the first place.
If he had run the race as well as he could he might have been a couple of minutes faster. That's about it. Not 60 or below. He would have to really focus on the event to hit 60.
So? Rudisha, Michael Johnson and Bolt were better than Ingebrigtsen at every distance from the 800 down. Bekele and Kipchoge were better at everything from 5k up. And El G was better over 1500/mile.
You are quite right. But Jakob is the best in the 3000m -unfortunately not a champs event. So what’s exciting short term is if he can improve time wise (and champ wise in the 1500m) so much in both the 1500m and 5000m to be one of a kind. -Very close even now if you ask me…
You don't seem to remember Jakob being somewhat better than them in every distance under 5000m.
So? Rudisha, Michael Johnson and Bolt were better than Ingebrigtsen at every distance from the 800 down. Bekele and Kipchoge were better at everything from 5k up. And El G was better over 1500/mile.
Do you have anything to say on the thread subject?
I think if Jakob had run the half during his base phase, he could have hit 60 or faster. But by the end of the season there was no way. His long run disappears in his competition phase and his base long run isn't even that long in the first place.
If he had run the race as well as he could he might have been a couple of minutes faster. That's about it. Not 60 or below. He would have to really focus on the event to hit 60.
You mistake prs for speed. Jakob doesn't have the top-end speed - which translates as kick - to other guys in the 1500/mile. That's why he now loses to them. This is no longer a controversial point. The question is how does he counter that.
I disagree -think the question is if Hocker, Kerr, Nuguse, Laros, or Kessler can improve so much that one of them can out run Jakob simply because more in the tank on the home straight. But I would still give the odds to a healthy and (and tactically/ executably) improved Jakob, given his head start 3.26.73, but we live in exciting times…
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
So? Rudisha, Michael Johnson and Bolt were better than Ingebrigtsen at every distance from the 800 down. Bekele and Kipchoge were better at everything from 5k up. And El G was better over 1500/mile.
You are quite right. But Jakob is the best in the 3000m -unfortunately not a champs event. So what’s exciting short term is if he can improve time wise (and champ wise in the 1500m) so much in both the 1500m and 5000m to be one of a kind. -Very close even now if you ask me…
You're right. Jakob's best distance is a non-championship distance. I think he is always at risk of being beaten in a championship 1500 now. His top-end speed limits him. I agree he could likely run faster than he has in the 5k but I don't see him as yet getting near the wr. He could be beaten in a 5k championship if it is run at 12:40 or better pace.
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