easily obtained in mexico (good luck getting it across the border), easily ordered from china (comes with a paper trail). the concentrations and efficacy of the pharmaceuticals from these two countries seem to vary significantly, however. because of this, people being testes tend to shy away from these sources.
Walking across the border is very simple, and unless the quantity is huge, it will just be confiscated if found. Ordering from China or India is also very easy and would be done through a cutout. I've known people who made large amounts of money doing both of these things. They preferred selling PEDS because the penalties for possession were minor to non-existent, whereas for Xanax or Adderall they were severe.
North American and European athletes are much more likely to be getting prescriptions from doctors, probably anti-aging doctors, who know how to exercise "discretion" and erase the paper trail (all technically illegal).
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Yep still have no sympathy. I was in the same boat, lived and breathed running, still do. Decent D1 runner but not competitive enough to do much with the sport post college. Also struggled hugely with iron deficiency anemia, it was a win to get my ferritin above 25 even with iron supplements. Obviously would have HUGELY benefited from epo/peds.
But I’m not a pathetic loser so I never cheated. Realized I needed to make a living another way, got a degree and did what everyone else in the world has to do. Still love to run, still love to follow the sport, but the world didn’t implode becuase my 5k wasn’t 45 seconds faster. I love the sport of running as much as anyone, but if you really love it and respect it you don’t cheat it, even if that means never moving up as high or getting the accolades you want.
It’s not how they race. It’s how they act after the race is finished.
Seemingly no pain, no distress, no discomfort.
Whatever some of these athletes are taking, it is completely removing lactic and the pain cave. So races are now just a test of biomechanics.
To produce a certain time in competition you are hitting splits that are as fast or faster in practice, the body is used to it, why would you expect pain or distress? Watching Sydney after her WRs I’m not shocked she isn’t down on the track for ages, she is ready to run that. What I found funny was watching Cory after the 1500 final in Eugene, clearly many minutes after her event, still breathless and speaking in a very clipped manner, and it was much more a fidget than an actual response from her body.
Look at race videos from years. Collapsed bodies littering the finish line. Are you saying that today's athletes train harder than those that came before them? I'm not buying it. It looks unnatural because it is
Walking across the border is very simple, and unless the quantity is huge, it will just be confiscated if found. Ordering from China or India is also very easy and would be done through a cutout. I've known people who made large amounts of money doing both of these things. They preferred selling PEDS because the penalties for possession were minor to non-existent, whereas for Xanax or Adderall they were severe.
North American and European athletes are much more likely to be getting prescriptions from doctors, probably anti-aging doctors, who know how to exercise "discretion" and erase the paper trail (all technically illegal).
no, it's not "technically legal," in the usa and canada, any interaction with a patient from a physician or physician's office must be documented. further, all prescriptions are monitored and recorded in a patient's chart, as well as documented at the pharmacy from which the substance is distributed.
North American and European athletes are much more likely to be getting prescriptions from doctors, probably anti-aging doctors, who know how to exercise "discretion" and erase the paper trail (all technically illegal).
no, it's not "technically legal," in the usa and canada, any interaction with a patient from a physician or physician's office must be documented. further, all prescriptions are monitored and recorded in a patient's chart, as well as documented at the pharmacy from which the substance is distributed.
I think you have a reading comprehension problem. I said it's illegal.
no, it's not "technically legal," in the usa and canada, any interaction with a patient from a physician or physician's office must be documented. further, all prescriptions are monitored and recorded in a patient's chart, as well as documented at the pharmacy from which the substance is distributed.
I think you have a reading comprehension problem. I said it's illegal.
There's been several Kenyan male distance runners over the past couple of years that have tested positive for testosterone.
What about nandrolonoe? The vast majority of Kenyan doping positives are for nandrolonoe (check this out - the Kenyans are addicted to nandrolonoe. 😲):
Back in the 1980s when I was a young bodybuilder & powerlifter, nandrolonoe (Deca- Durabolin) & D-bol were most popular stacks. It put tremendous size & strength on just about anyone who was willing to train like a madman & eat a ton of protein.
I'm assuming that distance runners are using microdosing or low doses of nandrolonoe so as to not put on excess weight & size?
Thanks for the link.
Aside from the detection risk, exogenous testosterone is not ideal for distance runners. To realize the full anabolic benefits of T, you need to push the dose up beyond physiological levels - i.e., greater than 1000 ng/dL. But when you do that, you will most likely experience numerous side effects that hinder distance running.
For example, it not uncommon for guys to gain 5-10 lbs of water weight. The problem is not just the added weight, but fact that the fluid tends to collect in your feet and calves. Feels like you are running with cement block shoes. Calf strains are common. Fluid retention not as big of an issue with cyclists, but major problem for distance runners.
Supra-physiological T also spikes your blood pressure and jacks up the CNS. Lots of insomnia issues with too much T which can counteract any enhanced recovery benefits from exo steady state T. Yes, it will increase your hematocrit, but your blood becomes like motor oil. It becomes harder to breath and cardio often suffers.
In short, supra-physiological T is great for short bursts like sprinting, but not conducive to keeping HR down for endurance events.
Nandrolone is much more popular as PED for distance running than T. I personally would never touch nandro. There are some serious long-term heart risks from everything I've read.
To realize the full anabolic benefits of T, you need to push the dose up beyond physiological levels - i.e., greater than 1000 ng/dL.
Dopers usually don't take advice from strawmen.
Huh? We are having discussion about PED trends. I am only trying to point out why testosterone may no longer be a preferred PED for distance running. There are many other more effective PEDs as others have mentioned.
Yeah, I find these conversations fascinating (especially posters who can actually name the drugs) but I was pretty good (not amazing) and had great teammates (all american) who were not ingesting anything beneficial to their health. One took a lot of ibuprofen because he thought it was helping him get through the season, the other didn't drink in season (which was almost like a PED on our team). Maybe there's greater access and knowledge re. performance enhancers with the internet being pretty different now than it was when I was competing but I knew some pretty impressive athletes who were AT MOST taking things like apple cider vinegar, ibuprofen, and vitamin C packets. I saw some come within tenths of a second of qualifying for NCAAs while drinking more than triple the weekly recommended amounts haha. Talent and miles are a hell of a drug.
Track is one of the sports that simply doesn't quite work, with its existing rules. Others: Racewalking. The game is "lifting" as much as possible without getting DQd. Basketball. Many rules about fouls, contact, handchecking etc. Result is subjective partial enforcement and partial cheating built in.
Also former D1 here to vent, I get what copper was saying but it also frustrating to read. I used to hear of some athletes/ programs and what they were potentially doing. And that was just as disheartening to hear more about it now. I think the way it's wrote is making it sound like "you should too bc everyone else is." And the scholarship take? Yea never once did I think to turn to drugs. Set out realistic goals to hit for scholarship increases...and if you're not talented enough, that's why you're in college. To get a degree and enter the workforce.
I worked my ass off for years to break 14 and for someone to do it in a season is fishy at best. Only ended my career making one ncaa championship individually and that was just cross...But peds? So many clean athletes out there working hard just for some kid who can access the dark web or has a prescription connection to get faster. Any college athlete that dopes should look back on their career with shame. Professional athletics is a different story...
Huh? We are having discussion about PED trends. I am only trying to point out why testosterone may no longer be a preferred PED for distance running. There are many other more effective PEDs as others have mentioned.
That's fine, but the assumption that in order to benefit from exogenous testosterone, you need to realize its full anabolic benefits, and in order to do so, you need to raise its level above some extreme, overgeneralized round number, does not hold water (pun intended).
Huh? We are having discussion about PED trends. I am only trying to point out why testosterone may no longer be a preferred PED for distance running. There are many other more effective PEDs as others have mentioned.
That's fine, but the assumption that in order to benefit from exogenous testosterone, you need to realize its full anabolic benefits, and in order to do so, you need to raise its level above some extreme, overgeneralized round number, does not hold water (pun intended).
1000 ng/dL an extreme number? You should spend some more time on TRT forums and T-Nation. That is child's play.
For general health (i.e., true TRT), I would agree that mid-range physiological TT levels are ideal, especially long-term. But for a world class athlete looking to move the needle - they are going to need more than that. Someone on LRC had posted paper on East German doping. The amounts they were injecting were staggering e.g., 25mg of T propionate per day plus a cocktail of other steroids.
easily obtained in mexico (good luck getting it across the border), easily ordered from china (comes with a paper trail). the concentrations and efficacy of the pharmaceuticals from these two countries seem to vary significantly, however. because of this, people being testes tend to shy away from these sources.
Walking across the border is very simple, and unless the quantity is huge, it will just be confiscated if found. Ordering from China or India is also very easy and would be done through a cutout. I've known people who made large amounts of money doing both of these things. They preferred selling PEDS because the penalties for possession were minor to non-existent, whereas for Xanax or Adderall they were severe.
If you're at a high school outside of Los Angeles with a coach who trained with a known doper, not that far away from the Mexico border, your access to drugs isn't that difficult and some of the drugs (EPO mainly - "rocket fuel") can knock literally 10 seconds off amile time and 30 off a 5k - turning a good 2 miler at 8:55 to a near record holder at 8:35 and allowing you to get into any college you want, NIL deals, some fame, etc
But yes, India, Mexico, and certain eastern European countries are perfect for obtaining PED's. Culture of corruption / bribery to look the other way, developed enough to have access to almost every drug except the most advanced Kettering / Mayo / Hopkins type therapies for niche diseases, but poor enough that you can get whatever you want with a bit of a bribe or even over the counter. EPO is probably impossible to order from foreign countries except if it's lyophilized as it has to be cold, but steroids can
If you know where CopperRunner lives, you can make an assumption as to what college he was at and who this particular runner is. I don’t know this runner personally, but know others he trains with and have heard a lot about him. Just seeing his last week and a half of training (if I’m assuming the right person) it seems like PEDS would be the only way to handle that load and recover so quickly! The story seems plausible to me.
I’ve seen enough of his post’s I’d believe him. If it’s byu though than nowhere else is safe. If Mormons are doping then I want every student who’s committed to an Ivy or equivalent tested
I don't fully agree with this. Physiology doesn't change over decades, so the science of training for the most part was set in the late 50's and 60's and yes, the knowledge moves forward as science progresses, but the overarching things in training that improve performance are long known.
Shoes change also. Each time a shoe company redesigns a shoe, they have something new. Technology advances.
But doping is very real. The biggest jumps in performance, when they are sudden and jarring and as some posters have said, "disposition of the athlete after the race" are the big indicators of doping.
If WADA/AIU/ITA/National anti-doping agencies cannot get everyone, some big name needs to go down to put some fear into the practise of doping.
But the biggest names are protected. Kipyegon setting WRs at 30? Come on. Same with Kipchoge
I don't fully agree with this. Physiology doesn't change over decades, so the science of training for the most part was set in the late 50's and 60's and yes, the knowledge moves forward as science progresses, but the overarching things in training that improve performance are long known.
Shoes change also. Each time a shoe company redesigns a shoe, they have something new. Technology advances.
But doping is very real. The biggest jumps in performance, when they are sudden and jarring and as some posters have said, "disposition of the athlete after the race" are the big indicators of doping.
If WADA/AIU/ITA/National anti-doping agencies cannot get everyone, some big name needs to go down to put some fear into the practise of doping.
But the biggest names are protected. Kipyegon setting WRs at 30? Come on. Same with Kipchoge
Marathon is a little different based on the aerobic requirements, which take years of training to get, and the relative lack of speed required, so it doesn't matter if his top end speed is getting slower after 30. There's every reason to think that peak marathon years are 30-35.
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