The Philly Marathon and its organizers (esp the elite organizer Colin) were dragged through the mud over this, and deserved none of it. At the very least they are owed an apology by those involved in this debacle, namely coach Chris Naimoli (Naimoli, not "Namoli" as is written).
It would also make sense for Merber to offer an update to this situation in his newsletter since the initial story had such wide reach and generated such a large response. It would suck for the reputation of the otherwise well-organized and great Philly races to be damaged by what we now know was a justified decision.
Well it’s really not that organized if they didn’t have enough medals. It’s a great race but Philadelphia doesn’t get high level marathoners to come. But the problem with that race for elites they only have two tables for fluids. Unless they changed it.
Is PRTC too big for its britches? 10+ years ago PRTC felt like a well-run, focused group of men and women who were chasing the post collegiate dream. Now it just seems...too large but still somehow exclusive.
I thought the division of the Liberty Track Club was confusing, now it makes a bit more sense.
But for someone to notice and, know it was illegal, and know how to report it, that's someone IN the Philly running community.
Like I said:
Prior to the race, Mr. Hermann requested that Elite Fluid Station #4 Volunteer Joseph Cutler, a member of the same running club as Mr. Hermann (Philadelphia Runner Track Club), hand Mr. Hermann his personal fluids. However, Mr. Cutler stated that he did not comply, leaving the bottle at its designated location on the table.
Volunteer working at Elite Fluid Station #6, Claire Lapat, reportedly told Mr. Hallman that Elite Fluid Volunteers were instructed to leave the personal fluids on the table. Mr. Hallman responded by falsely claiming that he was given permission by Elite Coordinator Colin Leak to hand Mr. Hermann his personal fluids. Mr. Hallman, as witnessed by Ms. Lapat, removed Mr. Hermann’s personal fluids from the elite fluids table and handed Mr. Hermann his personal fluids at the Elite Fluid Station.
One thing that should be said is that the same half truth was spread within the club. Most members believed the version that was published and widely circulated just like this message board did. The request to take down posts wasn't communicated as a way to hide evidence. In hindsight it clearly was.
It was reactionary, but the response after the fact all came from people being told it was just one bottle. How could anyone have known better?
Kyle reports on Ethan Hermann getting DQed for an unreal reason of the coach handing him a bottle AT the aid station. Is this a BS DQ or what? Am I reading the rules right that b/c it wasn't a volunteer handing out things at the aid station and his coach picked up a bottle to hand him, that he should be DQed, ruining a great amateur running story? The coach was obviously at fault here and should have known the rules and just stood away from the aid station.
Also, what person reports this to course/event officials? Just feel bad for the kid, seems like he worked hard, ran a great race, and won't get an official invite to the Olympic Trails because of a technicality that really didn't give him an unfair advantage. If anything, dock him 10 seconds and let him get in. The only penalization being a DQ seems so harsh in our sport.
I don't know what kind of shape he's in (if he could actually run) but can the letsrun top brass provide a USATF email on the home page so we can flood their inbox with Let Ethan Run emails?
This is a travesty. Freaking Tom Brady deflates footballs, gets caught, and he played in the Super Bowl.
One thing that should be said is that the same half truth was spread within the club. Most members believed the version that was published and widely circulated just like this message board did. The request to take down posts wasn't communicated as a way to hide evidence. In hindsight it clearly was.
It was reactionary, but the response after the fact all came from people being told it was just one bottle. How could anyone have known better?
Ethan and his crew of flunkies come off as really bad sports in this ordeal. Following the rules is not that difficult. Take your L and move on like an adult.
- Ethan Hermann sounds like a good hard-working kid put in a bad position by an over-reaching coach.
- Chris Naimoli sounds like an a**-hole who doesn't know the rules or doesn't care about them, is willing to lie (to race volunteer, to us, to club members, and to race officials) and tell half-truths and all for what is no real advantage. If Ethan can't grab his own bottle he has major issues, he doesn't need someone to hand them to him. But Chris wanted to do it to insert himself into the race/situation (ego trip) and did so to the detriment and eventual DQ of his athlete.
- Either James McKirdy is lying about the Philly Race Official(s) coming to him with the evidence and asking for his opinion or if it is true then the Race Official(s) has some major ethics issues. The opinion of an outside coach is not needed or helpful in a rules violation instance. Its only was the rule broken or not, opinion is useless. To involve an outside party and give them information/evidence is unethical or at least against the spirit and probably rules of the race. I have a hard time seeing how/why they would do that. The most likely scenario is that McKirdy reported the rules violation and that is why he was discussing it with them and when confronted by Chris he lied about reporting it and made up his story about them coming to him for an opinion. Sounds very McKirdy'ish.
Random question, but how often are these fluid rules enforced for lesser runners? Let's say I'm a 2:40 kind of guy, and a medium-sized, well-respected race has dumb fluid stations set up. If a friend hands me a few bottles throughout the course, is there any chance I get DQd?
It was reactionary, but the response after the fact all came from people being told it was just one bottle. How could anyone have known better?
If you didn't rent your pitchfork by the hour and actually asked for the other side of the story from the race organizer, you would have known better. Instead, you took the word only of one side as gospel.
Random question, but how often are these fluid rules enforced for lesser runners? Let's say I'm a 2:40 kind of guy, and a medium-sized, well-respected race has dumb fluid stations set up. If a friend hands me a few bottles throughout the course, is there any chance I get DQd?
Good question. Unless it's spelled out in the specific rules of that race, I don't think that is the case if it doesn't help you qualify for a national championship and you're just trying to run a PR. Spouses hand water to runners all the time along the course, so it would be pretty hard to enforce.
Am I wrong to have the opinion that Hermann organized the effort and had teammates stationed as volunteers at separate aid stations. From the one time I ran Philly (several years ago), it seemed like groups (high school teams, running groups, etc.) volunteered to man particular aid stations. Has this changed?
I can also see how the guys running near Hermann would get pissed off seeing the assistance he received at every aid station.
It was reactionary, but the response after the fact all came from people being told it was just one bottle. How could anyone have known better?
If you didn't rent your pitchfork by the hour and actually asked for the other side of the story from the race organizer, you would have known better. Instead, you took the word only of one side as gospel.
Fair. There's a big difference between a coordinated effort and being mislead though.
The running publications that hooked onto a one-sided story need to seriously reevaluate their approach to running press. Unbelievable. Citius being the major catalyst for the pile on.
PRTC needs to do some housekeeping. Dragging your hometown race through the mud on this one is horrible. I understand a lot of the club was lied to as well, but that report indicates enough were very much in on the conspiracy for it to be baffling that not one person from the club stepped up sooner.
Everything here is the exact mindset that introduces folks to doping in the sport. They probably felt the resulting advantage was minimal, it was mostly a plan to afford some convenience. Once they slid a tiny bit of justification into the process they probably kept circling back to "well, he still woulda run 2:17" in their minds as they continued to double-down on the lie. Once the lie was in place there needed to be some collateral damage, and they were okay with that because again, "he still woulda run 2:17."
Good for the people at the Philly Marathon for setting the record straight.
Wait, is that Dan Forry dude who sprinted 200 meters to give him a bottle the same one who cut his turkey trot course so he could beat Zach Miller and then flexed about it all over Strava? That is definitely not the type of person Ethan should be associating himself with.
Is there another thread I should be following here? Love a good cheater thread.
Wait, is that Dan Forry dude who sprinted 200 meters to give him a bottle the same one who cut his turkey trot course so he could beat Zach Miller and then flexed about it all over Strava? That is definitely not the type of person Ethan should be associating himself with.
Is there another thread I should be following here? Love a good cheater thread.
JusticeForAll_EvenMountaineers11/23/2023 4:30pm EST2 years ago
Zach Miller was 3rd at the Millersville Turkey Trot this morning. Looking at some Strava posts I see that the “winner” cut the course but they kept him in the results? Pretty clear from the results that he cut the course. Fin...
The masters winner in Richmond today brags of qualifying for World Masters at the same time he claims ZAP athletes violated basic rules by accompanying him and aiding him on the course when they weren’t entered in the race. D...
Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win a LetsRun t-shirt.Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win one of 10 LetsRun t-shirts.