Mods removed my post that mentioned that Athletics West has had multiple reputable people come forward about doping in the program. Go find the Canadian Ben Johnson documentary, that's a fun watch with one of the AW admins spilling the beans. One of the moderators here (hmmm, I wonder who) even admitted to taking steroids while on the team.
Anyway, Salazar was on that team, he coached Decker while on that team, and NOP was the spiritual successor to that team.
From helping Mo Farah become Britain's most successful track athlete in history, to appealing a four-year ban from athletics, BBC Panorama investigates Alberto Salazar's fall from grace.
Does Magness rage quit? Does he storm out to the press? report to WADA etc?
Nope. He hangs out for two years and "golden parachutes" out after the Olympics after he secures another coaching position.
So was he onboard with everything or was he scared after he thought about it?
Look at his glowing words in 2012, remember just a YEAR before that Steve helped research and develop and test on himself the injections. He stayed with NOP the whole time. Why? Fear.
Remember, Salazar has never had an athlete test positive for a banned substance; Schumacher has.
Mary Slaney had elevated testosterone levels in 1996 under Alberto Salazar's coaching. He has had an athlete fail a drug test.
Did you read what he wrote? He said Salazar never had an athlete test postive and tht's true - Slaney never tested positive.
As for Salazar, Letsrun talked about him on Friday's bonus podcast. Their consensus was that if it wasn't for SafeSport ban, they thought he'd 100% coach again but it may be too toxic from a sponsorship standpoint in the US. That being said, the SafeSport ban doesn't stop him from coaching. He could coach Rupp right now in the US. He just can't use certain facilities, go to certain meets, etc.
If Rupp shows up in Chicago and tell us he's back with Salazar, I think the Internet will melt down.
The mods tend to remove posts like that - even when they are accurate, such as my reference to his "digital examinations", which is what SafeSport found against him. Creeps are protected on this site.
Mods removed my post that mentioned that Athletics West has had multiple reputable people come forward about doping in the program. Go find the Canadian Ben Johnson documentary, that's a fun watch with one of the AW admins spilling the beans. One of the moderators here (hmmm, I wonder who) even admitted to taking steroids while on the team.
Anyway, Salazar was on that team, he coached Decker while on that team, and NOP was the spiritual successor to that team.
Post restored
thanks wojo for taking care of your own site and restore good content.
i posted for 20 years and got "banned forever" for calling out malmo, who i chatted with cordially for a decade.
some of us deliver great content, for free, for the love of the sport.
don't take that for granted. as i "resigned" prior.
You not trolling? Hahahaha that's new. OK I feed you once more.
First, you are the one always desperately trying to "correct" everyone, but when someone mistakenly rounds down from 11.6 instead of up, you not only ignore it instead of correcting it, you repeat it as fact just because it fits your agenda.
Second, you are lying again. We have actually seen lots of data (some of that actually explicitly mentioned by you!), not just hers (so much for your wrong "We only saw her data").
Third, you are doubly wrong with your 84.6% being "normally elevated": a) there was no proof of that; the CIR only showed that it might have been so; b) you yourself noted the tendency of the percentage going down from 4 - 6 to above 6, so obviously it will continue to go down (to an unknown extent) from 6 - 8 and then further from 8 - 10 and 10 - 12. But you had to pretend it's a 84.6% chance, right?
Sure, you can feed non-trolls like me. My preferred diet is data, facts, and evidence. I don't eat name-calling or personal attacks or baseless conclusions nor unfounded myths.
First, sometimes I take what people tell me at face value without fact-checking and correcting every detail. But I concede that people do lie to me more than I can correct them. It's typical that I am still getting blamed for someone else's "mistake" even after you know the source. Whether it is 11.0, or 11.6, all of my points still stand, as we are missing the "E" in "T/E" and we are lacking the results of the GC tests necessary to convict athletes today. Not sure how 11 "fits my agenda" any better than 11.6, when the threshold at the time was 6.0.
Second, OK I did show you a handful of other data I found. Besides that, what clean data have you seen? Have you seen any GC/MS or GC/C/IRMS data? But before you can say "0 (ZERO) had Decker's ratio of 11.6", you would need to see all of that data from hundreds of thousands of samples, and then characterize the maximums of the clean ones. Is that in your "lots of data" that "we have actually seen"? I have my doubts, but prove me wrong.
Third, 84.6% comes from a study I found. I'm sure I prefaced it with "Using these figures" and I said "as much as", indicating a range with an upper limit, or linked this with "T/E greater than 6.0". I don't have any data for any such alleged trend above 6.0. But what is clear is that lowering the limit from 6.0 to 4.0 made a marginal difference -- only 4 more doping positives with triple the testing over 5 years.
Mods removed my post that mentioned that Athletics West has had multiple reputable people come forward about doping in the program. Go find the Canadian Ben Johnson documentary, that's a fun watch with one of the AW admins spilling the beans. One of the moderators here (hmmm, I wonder who) even admitted to taking steroids while on the team.
Anyway, Salazar was on that team, he coached Decker while on that team, and NOP was the spiritual successor to that team.
Post restored
His post was false. There were no drugs at AW when I was there. I've told you this many times, yet you still don't listen wejo. Im.not going to go over this again since you have proven you have little regard for the facts.
rekkie, your kinda full of gobsh!te, ace. your argument is weak and full of holes. you've been repeatedly backed into a corner and have relied on personal attacks, red herrings, cherry-picked "evidence", and straw man arguments to support your assertions. i think the nit-picking of other posters is just the insecurity you see in yourself.
Thanks for the frank feedback, but this is full of more baseless conclusions, and most importantly, lacking any specificity about anything.
Which argument? Which assertions? I'm always happy to be proven wrong with actual contradictory facts which I may be unaware.
When was I ever backed into a corner, let alone repeatedly? If it's about coaching, I have stayed in one place: 1) in 2015, Mary denied reports that Alberto was her coach, saying it was Bill Dellinger, and 2) coaching is not doping by any definition, so the whole discussion itself seems to be a bit of a "red-herring" meant to be foundation for innuendo. If it's about her T/E ratio, I am the only one providing any data -- no one is backing me anywhere with contradictory data.
Personal attacks? I go out of my way to attack the statements, and not the person, and try to remain diplomatic in these emotional discussions. I admit that it's not always the case, especially with the more egregrious posters, but I receive 100x, if not more, personal attacks then I give.
Red herrings? Cherry-picked "evidence"? I gave the statements and conclusions of the anti-doping researchers and their data used to form anti-doping policy, and the resulting data of such policies. Do you have any non-cherry picked evidence that contradicts any of my assertions about anything?
Recall initially, the statement I responded to was that "Mary Slaney had elevated testosterone levels in 1996". I have yet to see that data for her "testosterone levels". The argument is that her T/E was high, because her "E" was low, while her "T" was in a normal range.
BTW Salazar likely won Comrades in 1994 while doping, it was after he met that geriatrics doctor and spontaneously recovered from chronic overtraining syndrome.
There's a reason why the ban at Doha was so sudden and immediate and dramatic (despite the brojos whining in that documentary) it was four years overdue.
Regardless of safesport, have people even read the final summary?
...
After the 1982 Boston "Duel in the Sun", Salazar was no longer the same athlete.
He was on Prozac in 1994 at the Comrades marathon. According to the AAA report, he tried testosterone for some months in 1991, and then in 1994, retired and resumed testosterone therapy.
Your 11 points look paraphrased, and are the charges from USADA, but not all the convictions from the panel decision. For example, he was not convicted for infusions of any other athletes besides assistant coach Magness, and he was not convicted for complicity.
(IIRC) He was convicted for 1) "Administration" related to Magness' violation (who was apparently never charged); 2) "Attempted tampering" by sending the infusion/injection email, and 3) "trafficking" by giving his sons testosterone in the sabotage experiment. On appeal, the tampering and trafficking convictions were reversed, and replaced with new violations of 2) "tampering" by obstructing USADA's investigation, and 3) "possession" of the testosterone not for personal prescribed use.
His post was false. There were no drugs at AW when I was there. I've told you this many times, yet you still don't listen wejo. Im.not going to go over this again since you have proven you have little regard for the facts.
Malmo, Wejo, et al.
Can I get this cleared up for myself and others? I'm not trying to spread falsehoods — I'm just a casual track history enthusiast. In general, I disagree with deleting a post just because it's wrong unless there's reasonable suspicion that the poster is intentionally spreading disinformation.
It's been a while since I've watched the Ben Johnson doc, read Swoosh, read Craig Virgin's posts, and all that. When were drugs at AW? When was Malmo at AW? I guess I could Google these things, but I think it's in the "public's," e.g. online track dorks', best interest if this is cleared up, even if for the millionth time.
After the 1982 Boston "Duel in the Sun", Salazar was no longer the same athlete.
He was on Prozac in 1994 at the Comrades marathon.
The Prozac thing always raised flags to me. In his biography, Salazar mentions things like how he was attacked for being on Prozac and people were calling him a cheater at the time. However, a lot of that biography has not aged well and reads a bit like deflection and misdirection. I knew a runner, maybe 10 years younger than Salazar, that was in the sub-elite scene in his prime. In the twilight of his career, his coach was pushing him to take Prozac because it was the hot new drug. There's two ways I can read this:
1) Salazar took Prozac because he needed it and others thought, "Hey, this Salazar hotshot took it, I should too!"
2) This was the nascent stages of Salazar's "grey zone" PED use and he was just one of many taking Prozac to try to gain a legal edge.
I'm more inclined to believe #2 at this point. But this is all very subjective without more evidence.
Generally you are quite correct - AW was a doping club; clearly Decker wasn't their only drug cheat.
Who else, when, how etc. is not precisely known. However, an unsubstantiated casual statement from one of their athletes - even if that may be a mod on the internet somewhere - is not a fact. At best, it is his observation; at worse, it is part of the usual cover-up.
I should probably google this but from where does safe sport obtain its authority to ban someone from coaching across the United States? I do not believe it is based on federal law. are there laws in all 50 states that delegate authority to state associations and then those delegate to safe sport? If I wanted to stand with a stopwatch in Central Park and call out splits to people who pay me would I need to register with safesport? Alberto should challenge the cosntitustioanotiy of it
Weird psuedo-legal talk always comes up when NOP is being discussed. Salazar being banned is kind of like being fired from work or banned from a trade organization. You don't need to do anything illegal to be fired from your job, just don't do your job or be rude to everyone and they'll eventually show you the door. Salazar broke some rules. They just happened to not be the rules that everyone is most familiar with, e.g. directly doping an athlete.
What rules did Salazar break? How did he not do his job?
Last week, our sport lost three figures at way too young of an age, Craig Virgin talked about drugs at Nike's Athletics West, and the stars did some karaoke in NYC, which we compare to Alan Webb's retirement karaoke in NYC in...
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