LRC note. We added in to the title that she trained in Cheptegei's camp as this is much more newsworthy than your average run of the mill doping bust. the same thing was true last year when someone in Kipchoge's camp was banned.
FFS dude, enough already. You lost the argument moons ago. Why are you persisting? STOP! for all that's holy... STOP!
"The argument"? Which argument exactly? I'm not arguing that the CAS upheld a 4-year ban, but Armstronglivs seems obsessed with arguing this result. This fails to address or rebut the only point I made.
The WADA Code is clear that intent is presumed, and bodies like the AIU are not required to, and in fact they did not, establish it as fact. It is clear from the CAS report that no such fact was established.
While that is sufficient for the AIU to presume intent, and the CAS to deem intent, the whole adjudication process falls far short of establishing intent as a real world fact.
What you argue is irrelevant. She's a convicted doper. End of story. Except to a doping-denier, as you are.
All the bad apples in Uganda have been caught now. She probably was influenced by Kenyan friends to take this route. Doping is not part of our culture. At least it shows that anti-doping in Uganda is working. Do not come to Uganda if you want to dope or we will catch you.
All the bad apples in Uganda have been caught now. She probably was influenced by Kenyan friends to take this route. Doping is not part of our culture. At least it shows that anti-doping in Uganda is working. Do not come to Uganda if you want to dope or we will catch you.
I'm talking about the substances found one time only. There are no doctors who want give athletes some PED who can use strange substances for that goal, substances that no dirty doctors in the most evolved Countries give their athletes. The effect on the performances of those substances are very poor (or, better, don't exist), and the proof of this is the fact that more the doctors know illegal drugs able to give big advantages, more they use. This means that the variety of illegal substances used by one athlete only probably are not prescribed for improving training or performances, but probably are, in small qualtity, in some drug produced in Asia, where there is not the must to detail the components of the medicine.
In my opinion, athletes caught for Nandrolone, Corticosteroids, EPO wanted to dope for improving training and performances, while athletes caught for drugs normally not used for doping are positive because unlucky (substances in some medicine used for treating some sickness) or careless
I can accept your argument of substances from asia like maybe china with illegal substances and which are also one-off but how are these substances even find its way into a doctor's office or pharmacy? Aren't they supposed to be regulated by medical license?
Next, why did you omit testosterone? Isn't that important for enhancing performances too? And how could you say there are no other substances apart from those 3 above that could enhance performances?
Not sure if you had heard of Jordan Chipangama? He was busted for 'meldonium' in 2017 twice and I bet nobody has ever heard of that drug too? Have you? Do you think Jordan accidentally ingested meldonium tainted medicine due to flu or tummy ache?
I don't actually think your assumption that athletes taking unheard of drugs are definitely unintentional as I believe that it's plausible that athletes should look for more 'exotic' drugs so that if they are caught they have a more 'exotic' excuse to blame. They could say 'oh I was trying to resolve my flu and bought a cheap flu med at my local grocer to save money'
The point was whether "intent" was an "established fact". It is not.
No, it isn't. The point is that she is a proven doper. You really need to be expressing your views on the fake moon-landing threads.
Wrong again. The point you chose to respond to was that intent wasn't an established fact. It was presumed, then deemed based on presumption, without any supporting evidence, or arguments.
Like the AIU and their experts and the CAS, neither you nor anyone else has shown otherwise.
I have often given my opinion on fake moon-landing threads, in favor of a position with supporting evidence, rather than a blind-faith in conclusions without evidence.
All the bad apples in Uganda have been caught now. She probably was influenced by Kenyan friends to take this route. Doping is not part of our culture. At least it shows that anti-doping in Uganda is working. Do not come to Uganda if you want to dope or we will catch you.
Unfortunately, doping is everywhere and most aren't caught.
No, it isn't. The point is that she is a proven doper. You really need to be expressing your views on the fake moon-landing threads.
Wrong again. The point you chose to respond to was that intent wasn't an established fact. It was presumed, then deemed based on presumption, without any supporting evidence, or arguments.
Like the AIU and their experts and the CAS, neither you nor anyone else has shown otherwise.
I have often given my opinion on fake moon-landing threads, in favor of a position with supporting evidence, rather than a blind-faith in conclusions without evidence.
You would be quite at home on the fake moon-landing threads. They think as you do.
"The argument"? Which argument exactly? I'm not arguing that the CAS upheld a 4-year ban, but Armstronglivs seems obsessed with arguing this result. This fails to address or rebut the only point I made.
The WADA Code is clear that intent is presumed, and bodies like the AIU are not required to, and in fact they did not, establish it as fact. It is clear from the CAS report that no such fact was established.
While that is sufficient for the AIU to presume intent, and the CAS to deem intent, the whole adjudication process falls far short of establishing intent as a real world fact.
What you argue is irrelevant. She's a convicted doper. End of story. Except to a doping-denier, as you are.
I do not argue, but give a statement of fact. She was convicted by a process that doesn't require establishing intent, and then sentenced to 4-years based on a presumption of intent. That is the real story -- not your extended fantasies. This fact is only confirmed and re-inforced by your inability to rebut this historical fact.
There are other more important stories which go beyond Houlihan and explores questions like:
- is the process just for, and does the process protect, all innocent athletes? (Tygart says no. I agree with Tygart. Innocent athletes are rail-roaded to 4-year bans, and the process is subjective and not robust enough to distinguish who is truly innocent from who is truly guilty.)
- and can we consider the process a robust fact-finding method? (I say no, for example when compared to superior approaches like the scientific method which require evidence and observation.)
What you argue is irrelevant. She's a convicted doper. End of story. Except to a doping-denier, as you are.
I do not argue, but give a statement of fact. She was convicted by a process that doesn't require establishing intent, and then sentenced to 4-years based on a presumption of intent. That is the real story -- not your extended fantasies. This fact is only confirmed and re-inforced by your inability to rebut this historical fact.
There are other more important stories which go beyond Houlihan and explores questions like:
- is the process just for, and does the process protect, all innocent athletes? (Tygart says no. I agree with Tygart. Innocent athletes are rail-roaded to 4-year bans, and the process is subjective and not robust enough to distinguish who is truly innocent from who is truly guilty.)
- and can we consider the process a robust fact-finding method? (I say no, for example when compared to superior approaches like the scientific method which require evidence and observation.)
No - none of that is important, except to a doping denier. Dopers are being caught. That is as it should be.
Nope. You can't produce anything you have written.
Nope. You can't find it. You don't know how to basic searches on the internet. That's a fact.
True. For over three months he was not able (should have taken no longer than a minute) to find some Olympic champion and a few world record setters in Olympic running events.
Maybe we should just accept that he is strongly handicapped. Unfortunately he is allowed to ruin so many threads.
Strange, I've never heard of meldonium too. Googled it and this was what I found:
" Meldonium has also been shown by NMR to bind to carnitine acetyltransferase.[24] Carnitine acetyltransferase belongs to a family of ubiquitous enzymes that play pivotal roles in cellular energy metabolism" (source Meldonium - Wikipedia)
It's for medical use only and those with coronary artery disease? It doesn't sound like a fit runner like Jordan Chipangama could be prescribed meldonium by any doctor. But it does sound like somebody with the intricate knowledge of medicine such as a doctor would be needed to identify meldonium out of a mountain pile of drugs as a possible performance enhancer? Who was Jordan's doctor and why did he need one anyway if he didn't have heart disease? Could it be his team and his coaches? It doesn't sound like Jordan could do it alone and fish out meldonium himself from a medical textbook. Somebody helped him and it definitely had to be a veteran expert.
I think I can disagree with Renato Canova that athletes ingesting uncommon drugs elements did so without intent. It's for me just an assumption that needs to be concretely proven as people like Jordan and his coaching team has proven otherwise.
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