The OP said who would win in their primes. Well Jakob's prime is probably 2 or 3 years away, and he'll likely be running 3:24 then. That's too quick even for a juiced El G.
Either Jakob should be removed from consideration or you have to assume his prime has occurred, but projecting what he maybe, possibly, could do isn't in the spirit of the hypothetical.
The OP said who would win in their primes. Well Jakob's prime is probably 2 or 3 years away, and he'll likely be running 3:24 then. That's too quick even for a juiced El G.
Yes I agree, juice + shoes Inge is better than just juice Hicham.
Do I know who would win? I don't really, but I'd love to watch that race. My best guess: El G, Kiprop and Coe are the most likely top 3, and I'm hedging on Morceli and Jakob in 4th and 5th. I think everyone else is just a little behind those 5.
And, since its Letsrun and this is a purely running discussion, flame away.
almost precisely my thinking. el guerrouj the greatest 1500m machine yet produced, kiprop the greatest 1500m talent, coe the finest 800/1500m athlete to date.
maybe coe would be unable to hang with the very fastest though and the other four named athletes would run away from him over the last 500m.
ingebrigtsen is terrific at pacing and extracting his own best performance and would be a great each way bet.
What are you talking about? He just ran 3:27.15, having blasted the 2 mile WR a month ago. No one is running away from him no matter the era, he is the aerobically strongest runner ever to specialize in the 1500m. The only thing that might separate him from Hicham and Morcelli is their ability to accelerate hard instead of only winding up like Jakob does, which is why I pick them over him.
Don't bring up the supershoes. They help for sure in the longer distances, but the 1500m and 800m WRs havent been threatened at all since the arrival of the super shoes.
I guess I'll keep this in mind when there are endless posts saying that all the sub-4:00 high schoolers are "really 4:02-4:03 guys getting a bump from the shoes."
Have you considered that the WRs in the 1500 and 800 haven't been threatened because the guys who set them are still, all these years later, MILES ahead of the current world's best? This supports the case that El G would walk away from the field.
Bad take: The 1500 WR hasn't been threatened, so shoes don't matter.
Good take: In spite of the huge advantage of the shoes, Jakob and others can't come close to El G because El G was miles ahead, and with the shoes he would run 3:24.
If the shoes are worth 2 seconds in a 1500m, Jakob is the only guy to actually break 3:30 (3:28 with super spikes) since 2019, and it took him until this year…
How can anyone with a functioning brain believe this?
I guess I'll keep this in mind when there are endless posts saying that all the sub-4:00 high schoolers are "really 4:02-4:03 guys getting a bump from the shoes."
Have you considered that the WRs in the 1500 and 800 haven't been threatened because the guys who set them are still, all these years later, MILES ahead of the current world's best? This supports the case that El G would walk away from the field.
Bad take: The 1500 WR hasn't been threatened, so shoes don't matter.
Good take: In spite of the huge advantage of the shoes, Jakob and others can't come close to El G because El G was miles ahead, and with the shoes he would run 3:24.
If the shoes are worth 2 seconds in a 1500m, Jakob is the only guy to actually break 3:30 (3:28 with super spikes) since 2019, and it took him until this year…
How can anyone with a functioning brain believe this?
Why does it surprise you that the best runners today without epo are about as fast as the best runners before epo?
So the best runner today runs the 80's equivalent of 3:29 high, and the best runners of the 80s - Ovett, Coe, Cram, Aouita all ran around the same time.
Hmmmm. maybe something amiss was going on for much of 30 odd years between Cram and Jakob?
If the shoes are worth 2 seconds in a 1500m, Jakob is the only guy to actually break 3:30 (3:28 with super spikes) since 2019, and it took him until this year…
How can anyone with a functioning brain believe this?
Why does it surprise you that the best runners today without epo are about as fast as the best runners before epo?
So the best runner today runs the 80's equivalent of 3:29 high, and the best runners of the 80s - Ovett, Coe, Cram, Aouita all ran around the same time.
Hmmmm. maybe something amiss was going on for much of 30 odd years between Cram and Jakob?
So, as it becomes more and more apparent that El G, with super shoes, should win in a walk away, we are going to toss the whole hypothetical into the trash by disqualifying generations of runners who might have been doped?
(Which assumes both that they were, and that the runners before and after were not. Making that assumption is laughable.)
El Guerrouj takes the lead 200 in but it’s not crazy fast until 600 (1:29) in where he starts pushing it to sub-55 pace. Jakob goes right with him and then Morceli on his heels. Small gap to Ngeny, Kiprop makes a huge move to get into 4th after languishing in last. Jakob goes by El Guerrouj at 450 to go. Morceli follows and its El Guerrouj Kiprop Ngeny Makhloufi Coe in that order behind. The top two separate with Ngeny and Coe hot on El Guerrouj’s tail after going by Kiprop whose two big moves drain his finish. Morceli gets by Jakob at 150 to go and Jakob has no answer. Ngeny/Coe get by El Guerrouj the last 125 but just can’t catch Jakob. Makhloufi passes a rigging Kiprop. Centrowitz outkicks Cacho narrowly.
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There's no way Ingerbritsen is outlasting El Gherouj, Ngeny or even Cacho in a 3.32 low race. He isnt a kicker like them ....he is a long run for home kinda guy and that aint happening in that kinda race.
Ingy needs a 3.28 race. in fact its the only kinda global final hes won.
I also wonder how this works out for the last 12 women champs ....or is it Kipyegon all through hehe
There's no way Ingerbritsen is outlasting El Gherouj, Ngeny or even Cacho in a 3.32 low race. He isnt a kicker like them ....he is a long run for home kinda guy and that aint happening in that kinda race.
Ingy needs a 3.28 race. in fact its the only kinda global final hes won.
I also wonder how this works out for the last 12 women champs ....or is it Kipyegon all through hehe
I guess my theory is El Guerrouj does most of the work and Ingrebridsten treats him like a pacemaker. He is good at running in packs unlike Kiprop/Cacho to me. Coe and Ngeny I agree run the last 100 faster than him but they also get slightly gapped and have to deal with getting around Kiprop, El Guerrouj. So maybe I’m giving Jakob too much credit but I believe in his racing brain and engine.
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From one of the best posters on this board - what a forum.
Heh might be prisoner of the moment I’ll cede. I don’t think Jakob is better than El Guerrouj at all but I could see him running a smarter, more patient race (like in Tokyo).
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Add to this super spikes, Tokyo track with modern fast technology.
It’s true I should probably swap Jakob and El Guerrouj. It’s all about El Guerrouj hitting it exactly right like Athens, which is something he didn’t try until Athens. And I think he has to go from further out. I still believe peak Morceli has all the answers.
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but that 3:26 was a perfectly set up race for him and he was 50 metres ahead at the finish line, he had no real competition. with 11 other guys as fast as him (bar maybe 1-2 seconds), he wouldn't be able to sit on the shoulder, kick when he wanted and have it all his own way.
To be fair, El G has run 3:26 multiple times. In Brussels 2001 he ran 3:26.1 with Bernard Lagat two tenths back. He also had Noah Ngeny right on him when he set the 3:43 mile world record. He obviously dominated a huge amount of races, but you can’t say it was always no competition. Of course, he was the king of running super fast times and dominating but I think El G can beat this whole list any way he wants.
This would be much better if none of the athletes were tested prior. A free-for-all of banned substances in one race of all stars. Some might shine brighter than we'd expect, and some would have no improvement.
Heh might be prisoner of the moment I’ll cede. I don’t think Jakob is better than El Guerrouj at all but I could see him running a smarter, more patient race (like in Tokyo).
3 (!) mistakes in the name of the currently most discussed track and field athlete. From one of the best posters here.