I'm talking about pre-transition people. No, the argument always has been that the feelings associated with the incongruency themselves were the source of suicidal ideations. If the distress of feeling like you're in the wrong body is so great that you feel the need to surgically alter your genitals and completely change your hormonal profile to stop it, then you have a mental disorder.
The motivations behind declassifying gender identity disorder as a mental illness is more political than it is clinical.
The part in bold is your opinion, not shared by experts in the field.
You don’t seem to be able or willing to recognize the difference between the distress caused by the incongruency in a mostly binary world and the incongruency itself. An albino or gay person may be distressed because they look or feel different from others, but it’s not a mental disorder. If a trans person is depressed because of their condition and/or a hostile environment, the depression is the mental disorder, but if they are happy, they don’t have a mental disorder, just that you think they do.
The problem isn’t with the word “disorder” or the stigma that might come with it, but with “mental” and the implied view that it’s all in their deluded mind. You could well say that the problem is with their physiology, so therapy to change their physiology is a reasonable method to fix one source of their distress, the other source being binary society unfriendly to the nonbinary.
Also, Nikki is NOT transgender, they are non-binary. Definitely different situation.
According to the definitions used in the Washington Post story you posted earlier and the survey on which it's based, Nikki HIltz certainly counts as transgender:
A 62 percent majority of trans adults identify as “trans, gender non-conforming” or “trans, non-binary,” while 33 percent identify as a “trans man” or “trans woman.” Nearly half ask people to refer to them with they/them pronouns, although most say they sometimes use she/her or he/him pronouns.
The poll reveals that most adults who identify as trans or transgender prefer the terms “nonbinary” (40 percent) or “gender non-conforming” (22 percent), while 22 percent identify as a “trans woman” and 12 percent identify as a “trans man.”
Three in 10 trans people physically present as a different gender all of the time, while 20 percent do so “most of the time.” Another 34 percent present as a different gender some of the time, and a small but significant share (16 percent) say they “never” physically present as a gender different from their sex assigned at birth.
I brought up the issue only because some people, including yourself, insisted that sex is not "assigned."
The person in that YouTube video was "assigned" male before birth, and was reassgined female upon birth. And in both cases, she had absolutely no choice.
There are people with 46XY DSD who are assigned female at birth, and are later reassgined male after their bodies develop male characteristics. In those cases, they MAY be consulted by their doctors about the decision, but they may not.
There are people with 46XY DSD who are assgined male at birth, and later develop female characteristics. They get bullied for being effiminate, and if they try to live as women, get bullied again for being transgender.
The fact is that our sex is assgined by someone at some point, whether by a doctor, a midwife, a parent or someone else. It is simple and straightforward for 99+% of us , but that does not change the fact that it is not simple for some people.
The posts like yours and the one you quoted belittle, insult and denigrate the very existence of people who deserve to live in our society as much as you and me.
…even though you clearly and self-admittedly don’t seem to know what DSM-5 says.
It's a mental disorder. If people are willing to commit suicide from gender dysphoria, it's a mental disorder. You can try and play semantic power games, but it fits the criteria clear as day.
Please explain to us that a mental condition which supposedly requires one to take hormone blockers and get reconstructive surgeries to help treat (why would any treatments at all be required if it weren't a disorder) in order to avoid suicide, is not a mental disorder.
So if a person is no longer experiencing extreme stress after they transitioned to the gender they identiify with, is that person's "mental disorder" cured? Or is it only in remission?
2) Considering I have 2 daughters I don't think they'll be wanting to compete on the men's teams once they hit puberty.
Isn't that how it usually works? If my daughters wanted to compete vs men, they wouldn't do as well but most men I think wouldn't care too much as they wouldn't have an unfair advantage.
If one of your daughters says she wants to play sports with a trans girl, what woud you say to her? And if she says she would not play unless her friend is allowed to play with her, what would you say?
Those situations already exist. There are girls who are refusing to try out for the school's sport teams because their friends are not allowed to play. How does that protect girls in sports? I have no idea.
Also, Nikki is NOT transgender, they are non-binary. Definitely different situation.
According to the definitions used in the Washington Post story you posted earlier and the survey on which it's based, Nikki HIltz certainly counts as transgender:
A 62 percent majority of trans adults identify as “trans, gender non-conforming” or “trans, non-binary,” while 33 percent identify as a “trans man” or “trans woman.” Nearly half ask people to refer to them with they/them pronouns, although most say they sometimes use she/her or he/him pronouns.
The poll reveals that most adults who identify as trans or transgender prefer the terms “nonbinary” (40 percent) or “gender non-conforming” (22 percent), while 22 percent identify as a “trans woman” and 12 percent identify as a “trans man.”
Three in 10 trans people physically present as a different gender all of the time, while 20 percent do so “most of the time.” Another 34 percent present as a different gender some of the time, and a small but significant share (16 percent) say they “never” physically present as a gender different from their sex assigned at birth.
Yes, the survey included people with a range of non conforming gender identities. Nikki is not transgender in the sense that Nikki says they are a man or identify with that pole of the binary. The source of this information….Nikki.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Also, what the DSM-5 or ICD say is irrelevant because many trans activist now say it's transphobic to assume that having "gender dysphoria," "gender incongruence" or any other sort of psychologocial distress about one's sex or gender is a prerequisite for being transgender.
Not everyone who is transgender nowadays has experienced "gender dysphoria" or "gender incongruence" or any kind of discomfort with their bodily sex or any unhappiness over being boxed in by the bunch of sex stereotypes that constitute gender.
In fact, many today become transgender for a host of other reasons such as attention, the desire to be seen as special, and the pursuit of sexual pleasure, aka "gender euphoria."
But this does not change the fact that there are still a large number of people who suffer from insistent, consistent and persistant stress from gender incongruence from early childhood. If their ingoncurence starts in early childhood and does not change to puberty, it is not likely to change for the rest of their lives.
They are not pushed into transition by their homophobic parents as you claimed on this board.
Also, what the DSM-5 or ICD say is irrelevant because many trans activist now say it's transphobic to assume that having "gender dysphoria," "gender incongruence" or any other sort of psychologocial distress about one's sex or gender is a prerequisite for being transgender.
Not everyone who is transgender nowadays has experienced "gender dysphoria" or "gender incongruence" or any kind of discomfort with their bodily sex or any unhappiness over being boxed in by the bunch of sex stereotypes that constitute gender.
In fact, many today become transgender for a host of other reasons such as attention, the desire to be seen as special, and the pursuit of sexual pleasure, aka "gender euphoria."
But this does not change the fact that there are still a large number of people who suffer from insistent, consistent and persistant stress from gender incongruence from early childhood. If their ingoncurence starts in early childhood and does not change to puberty, it is not likely to change for the rest of their lives.
They are not pushed into transition by their homophobic parents as you claimed on this board.
Haven’t seen the survey questions yet, and looking forward to the soon to be released results of the much larger national survey, but certainly nothing to suggest that individuals transition to “seek attention” or to “be seen as special.” That’s just more pejorative bs meant to insult and demean trans people. What % transitioned to win their HS league track championship or their local turkey trot? That’s what most of the LRC crowd wants to know. Not sure if the survey asked this critical question.
Also, what the DSM-5 or ICD say is irrelevant because many trans activist now say it's transphobic to assume that having "gender dysphoria," "gender incongruence" or any other sort of psychologocial distress about one's sex or gender is a prerequisite for being transgender.
Not everyone who is transgender nowadays has experienced "gender dysphoria" or "gender incongruence" or any kind of discomfort with their bodily sex or any unhappiness over being boxed in by the bunch of sex stereotypes that constitute gender.
In fact, many today become transgender for a host of other reasons such as attention, the desire to be seen as special, and the pursuit of sexual pleasure, aka "gender euphoria."
BTW, that Washington Post story ilustrates the glaring sex bias that's at the core of transgenderism and the ways trans people are portrayed in media. It's a sex bias that always prioritizes, favors and gives the most attention to males who identify as transgender, and treats females who identify as transgender as though they are of far lesser importance - after-thoughts, also-rans, bit players, NPCs, chopped liver.
Although the majority of people who identify as transgender today are female, the WaPo story features, names and quotes four (4) transgender-identified persons who are male but only two (2) who are female.
What's more, WaPo devotes many more column inches to the male transgender-identified persons in the story than to the female ones.
The WaPo story describes in some detail the backgrounds and present-day situations of two young white males - "Alyssa Rogers, a White 26-year-old trans woman" and "Josie Nixon, a 30-year-old nonbinary person" (whom the photo shows is also white).
But WaPo tells readers much less about the backstories and current life circumstances of the females in the story - "TC Caldwell, a 37-year-old Black nonbinary person" and "Tim McCoy, a White 72-year-old trans man."
The lone black transgender male in the story - "Tessa Jelani, a 26-year-old Black trans woman" - also gets very short shrift compared to the the two white males, Rogers and Nixon. Funny that.
The sexist bias favoring males that WaPo displays in its story is illustrated and reinforced by the photographs WaPo has chosen for the story too: five (5) of the photos are of male individuals who identify as trans; only two (2) photos are of trans persons who are female.
WaPo's version of "diversity" and "inclusion" 2023 sure seems very heavily laced with the male-favoring sexist double standards and white-favoring racist biases that characterized the paper's content before the civil rights and women's liberation eras of the 1960s and 70s. Which is fitting because gender identity ideology, the phenomenon of transgenderism, and much of what's being demanded in the name of "trans rights" are based on regressive, sexist and male-supremacist ideas that harken back to the 1950s - and they're rather racist too.
BTW, that Washington Post story ilustrates the glaring sex bias that's at the core of transgenderism and the ways trans people are portrayed in media. It's a sex bias that always prioritizes, favors and gives the most attention to males who identify as transgender, and treats females who identify as transgender as though they are of far lesser importance - after-thoughts, also-rans, bit players, NPCs, chopped liver.
Although the majority of people who identify as transgender today are female, the WaPo story features, names and quotes four (4) transgender-identified persons who are male but only two (2) who are female.
What's more, WaPo devotes many more column inches to the male transgender-identified persons in the story than to the female ones.
The WaPo story describes in some detail the backgrounds and present-day situations of two young white males - "Alyssa Rogers, a White 26-year-old trans woman" and "Josie Nixon, a 30-year-old nonbinary person" (whom the photo shows is also white).
But WaPo tells readers much less about the backstories and current life circumstances of the females in the story - "TC Caldwell, a 37-year-old Black nonbinary person" and "Tim McCoy, a White 72-year-old trans man."
The lone black transgender male in the story - "Tessa Jelani, a 26-year-old Black trans woman" - also gets very short shrift compared to the the two white males, Rogers and Nixon. Funny that.
The sexist bias favoring males that WaPo displays in its story is illustrated and reinforced by the photographs WaPo has chosen for the story too: five (5) of the photos are of male individuals who identify as trans; only two (2) photos are of trans persons who are female.
WaPo's version of "diversity" and "inclusion" 2023 sure seems very heavily laced with the male-favoring sexist double standards and white-favoring racist biases that characterized the paper's content before the civil rights and women's liberation eras of the 1960s and 70s. Which is fitting because gender identity ideology, the phenomenon of transgenderism, and much of what's being demanded in the name of "trans rights" are based on regressive, sexist and male-supremacist ideas that harken back to the 1950s - and they're rather racist too.
Ok, thanks for your super progressive take. Say the coverage was evenly split between stories of trans men and women with plenty of BIPOC stories too, would that appease you? I’m sure we can find that coverage if we try. Are you channeling your inner Barbara Smith?
If I'm a broken record, then so are you. Pot meet kettle, LOL.
But at least I present arguments and evidence for my positions. Whereas you just post nonsense, repeat canned slogans, call me peurile names, and vent your misogynistic spleen.
If I'm a broken record, then so are you. Pot meet kettle, LOL.
But at least I present arguments and evidence for my positions. Whereas you just post nonsense, repeat canned slogans, call me peurile names, and vent your misogynistic spleen.
I was thinking this after reading muckle's 3rd post... after the 10th or so post, it's irrefutable. When in doubt, skip evidence and sling the 'ol "bigot/(fill-in-the-blank)phobic/wrassist card. Muckle, if you presented credible contentions, people might actually listen to you. Instead we tune you out b/c you present nothing of value and end up hurting the cause you purport to support.
The existence of women's sports is specifically there to provide equal opportunities for women in sports. Without a women's division, no female athletes would rise to the top in any field. No woman would make a team. By giving women a protected league it provides them an equal opportunity to compete.
Gender as modern people see it is not an intrinsic trait, you can change how you identify at any time. Saying that there is a bigger evil in denying a man who identifies as a woman a chance to compete versus scrapping the entire concept of protected women's sports is nuts.