In all your posts, you have never once been able to articulate why this is a poor argument. You've just called it one.
So once again, I am asking you: why DOES Nikki always wake up feeling like a woman on race day? Why is Nikki, who is not a woman, perfectly fine to compete alongside women, when we are repeatedly told that trans women must be allowed in women's categories or it is an unjust act against them? Do you think it is the reasons we believe? Money? The fact that ultimately Nikki is Assigned female at birth and therefore, acknowledges that sports are more about bodies than gender identity? Or is there something we are missing?
You can’t seriously still be beating that dead horse?
It's a question that was never answered. It's not a dead horse, because no one has a good answer for it. And ultimately it proves the point that sports are about bodies competing and not identities.
Guys Nikki is a female, Nikki knows this. I don't think Nikki would debate being a female. That is why Nikki competes with females. Nikki is not taking any hormones or steroids to try and transition. Nikki just doesn't identify as a woman and would like to not be referred to as one.
I think most of the rational posters understand this and agree with what she is doing. The issue comes with the fact that trans rights groups often claim that making mtf athletes compete in the male category is discriminatory and oppressive. The fact that Hiltz is capable of happily competing with females proves (to some) that this is not the case and mtf athletes are just looking for an athletic advantage (in sport. I don't think anyone doubts that their transition is genuine).
So trans and nonbinary people are all supposed to speak with one voice? Are cis-hetero people also supposed to speak with one voice?
There are trans girls who have never competed as boys and would rather quit their sports if they have to compete as boys. Are they responsible for what Nikki does? They don't say anything critical about people like Nikki because they will be slammed as "transmedicalist" if they do. (Just ask Hunter Schafer how well they went.)
Nikki is responsible for what they do and what they advocate for. If Nikki competes as a woman, it is hypocritical to advocate for trans women's inclusion in women's sports. Other people are not responsible for what Nikki does and says.
They have posted several times about being unsponsored and selling t-shirts to help fund their training.
Did they get dropped by Adidas or are they going after another sponsor? Any insight? What companies might pick them up, if any? What would they need to do to get sponsored again?
How/why did people downvote this guy's question? It is just a question, right? I am curious about an answer if anyone has one...
They/them is fine when we don't know the gender of a person --- e.g. "If you know who lost their keys, you can tell them that they can pick them up at the front desk."
But if we are talking about a woman in a group of women, "they" is confusing. Just my two cents. It is going to take a while before most people over 30 to adapt to its use.
... Nikki describes how coming out as non binary proved to be more challenging than coming out as gay because they didn't receive the "overwhelming support" that they had when they came out as gay. When they came out, they anticipated they would get that same support but 2021 was a politically charged time for trans and non binary athletes so they were met with resistance...
I think the reason I am so supportive of Nikki's choice to be gay is that it doesn't hurt anyone or demand anything really of society. As a libertarian, I don't really care who you love. It is a free country; you do you. I fully support gay rights in a free country like ours.
But the pronoun thing is different because it is actually illiberal to say "if a person loves women, and is more comfortable being dressing & acting in masculine ways, that person must not be a woman so we can't use she/her pronouns." As a liberal, I am not okay with that. You can be as butch as you want, and still be a woman.
My generation of Liberals fought hard for women (esp. gay women) to "be however they wanted." This included being boyish, dating other women, dressing and acting butch. All of that was fine for a girl or a women. It didn't mean you were a man (and nobody thought that; it didn't mean you weren't a woman.)
But here we are 30 years later, even the right-wing has largely agreed with what we were asking for in the 1990s, and low-and-behold the attack came from the Left of the Left. Now, if you are a gay woman who acts butch and dresses in masculine clothes, you are told "you are probably not really a women" by the far Left. That is harmful to women who should be allowed to be as masculine as they want and still be women.
You can’t seriously still be beating that dead horse?
It's a question that was never answered. It's not a dead horse, because no one has a good answer for it. And ultimately it proves the point that sports are about bodies competing and not identities.
... Nikki describes how coming out as non binary proved to be more challenging than coming out as gay because they didn't receive the "overwhelming support" that they had when they came out as gay. When they came out, they anticipated they would get that same support but 2021 was a politically charged time for trans and non binary athletes so they were met with resistance...
I think the reason I am so supportive of Nikki's choice to be gay is that it doesn't hurt anyone or demand anything really of society. As a libertarian, I don't really care who you love. It is a free country; you do you. I fully support gay rights in a free country like ours.
But the pronoun thing is different because it is actually illiberal to say "if a person loves women, and is more comfortable being dressing & acting in masculine ways, that person must not be a woman so we can't use she/her pronouns." As a liberal, I am not okay with that. You can be as butch as you want, and still be a woman.
My generation of Liberals fought hard for women (esp. gay women) to "be however they wanted." This included being boyish, dating other women, dressing and acting butch. All of that was fine for a girl or a women. It didn't mean you were a man (and nobody thought that; it didn't mean you weren't a woman.)
But here we are 30 years later, even the right-wing has largely agreed with what we were asking for in the 1990s, and low-and-behold the attack came from the Left of the Left. Now, if you are a gay woman who acts butch and dresses in masculine clothes, you are told "you are probably not really a women" by the far Left. That is harmful to women who should be allowed to be as masculine as they want and still be women.
Has Hiltz ever said "if a person loves women, and is more comfortable being dressing & acting in masculine ways, that person must not be a woman so we can't use she/her pronouns"?
Hiltz says Hiltz does not feel like a woman on some days. As far as I know, Hiltz does not say how other butch lesbians who dress in masculine clothes should identify, or how we should identify those people.
Nikki is not relevant anyway. It’s like arguing about Quigley, Houlihan, or Jorgensen.
The 3rd fastest American miler last year and in the top 10 in the 1500. More relevant than you.
Hiltz has not PR'd in the 1500m since 2019 and was slower in 2022 (4:04) than 2021 (4:02) so performance trend would be declining. Hiltz would also not currently have a qualifier for 2024 Paris as it is 4:02.50 so would have to return to 2019 form if competing in Women's races. There is a reason for Lululemon sponsorship. Hopefully turns it around this season, let's see the fitness this indoor season. Has Hiltz mentioned moving up in distance?
2019, 4:01.52
2021, 4:02.94
2022, 4:04.12
Also of note is that World Athletics/USATF has Hiltz listed under "Women"
I think the reason I am so supportive of Nikki's choice to be gay is that it doesn't hurt anyone or demand anything really of society. As a libertarian, I don't really care who you love. It is a free country; you do you. I fully support gay rights in a free country like ours.
But the pronoun thing is different because it is actually illiberal to say "if a person loves women, and is more comfortable being dressing & acting in masculine ways, that person must not be a woman so we can't use she/her pronouns." As a liberal, I am not okay with that. You can be as butch as you want, and still be a woman.
My generation of Liberals fought hard for women (esp. gay women) to "be however they wanted." This included being boyish, dating other women, dressing and acting butch. All of that was fine for a girl or a women. It didn't mean you were a man (and nobody thought that; it didn't mean you weren't a woman.)
But here we are 30 years later, even the right-wing has largely agreed with what we were asking for in the 1990s, and low-and-behold the attack came from the Left of the Left. Now, if you are a gay woman who acts butch and dresses in masculine clothes, you are told "you are probably not really a women" by the far Left. That is harmful to women who should be allowed to be as masculine as they want and still be women.
Has Hiltz ever said "if a person loves women, and is more comfortable being dressing & acting in masculine ways, that person must not be a woman so we can't use she/her pronouns"?
Hiltz says Hiltz does not feel like a woman on some days.
The problem as an old-school Liberal is that we were trying to get conservatives to understand that "feeling like a woman" (or man) is nonsense. Women can feel all different kinds of ways. There is no such thing as "a set of feelings that define your gender."
Some women feel butch and some are more feminine, some are chill, some are aggressive, etc. Your feelings don't determine your gender because women (and men) can feel however they want without it taking away from their womanhood or manhood.
But that was the OG Liberal belief and I think I am behind the times. My generation fought to "win this aspect of the culture war" and then we got sniped from the left of the Left, as I said. Now the stance is if you feel masculine, you are likely a trans-man. That is the current go-to stance.
I’ll just note, for the record, that you suck. First, saying “they” instead of “she” isn’t hard. And Nikki’s only controversial to the extent that folks like you exist
"they" is plural. I am all for Nikki's gender identity but please pick another pronoun because, in English, "they" refers to multiple individuals. What is controversial is that Nikki and people like her (I am referring to attitude, not gender identity) blame other people for not conforming to their will. It has been written many times, if Nikki doesn't identify as female, then don't compete as one. If she chooses to compete as a female athlete, don't expect empathy when female words are used in the proper context.
Exactly, is it too hard for them to create a new pronoun instead of choosing one that’s already defined to mean something else? what do non-binary folks use in French, German, etc?
I feel one of the reasons that runners like Hiltz and others remain unsponsored is they think they are worth much more than anyone is offering
This, and let's be real are any of these pros really "worth" their sponsorship. The whole idea behind advertising/sponsoring something is that your will get a return on your investment. How many people are watching Nikki run a race or any other mid tier pro for that matter and saying to themselves "Man, i gotta get me some XYZ brand cause they just ran awesome in it"
The 3rd fastest American miler last year and in the top 10 in the 1500. More relevant than you.
Hiltz has not PR'd in the 1500m since 2019 and was slower in 2022 (4:04) than 2021 (4:02) so performance trend would be declining. Hiltz would also not currently have a qualifier for 2024 Paris as it is 4:02.50 so would have to return to 2019 form if competing in Women's races. There is a reason for Lululemon sponsorship. Hopefully turns it around this season, let's see the fitness this indoor season. Has Hiltz mentioned moving up in distance?
2019, 4:01.52
2021, 4:02.94
2022, 4:04.12
Also of note is that World Athletics/USATF has Hiltz listed under "Women"
