It has been pointed out that countries can send 1 athlete in an even regardless if they meet the standard. Would some of these posters recognize an 80 year old as an Olympian if he was the only entrant that a country had in the 1500?
It has been pointed out that countries can send 1 athlete in an even regardless if they meet the standard. Would some of these posters recognize an 80 year old as an Olympian if he was the only entrant that a country had in the 1500?
Master of LoIIy wrote:
NJ NY wrote:
You dance.
Had he pulled out 2 weeks earlier, Engels would have gone. Nuguse's profile would say 2021 Olympian on 1ST line and withdrawn on 2nd line. Can we have 4 Okympians? You choose not to calmly discuss. Why be rude if someone is dense? Do you insult people on crutches too?
Playing chess with pigeons is frustrating. The challenging bit is, that people with very limited thinking capability think they're right and / or smart and there is no other way to see things.
Then Engels would have been an Olympian and I'm not so sure that Nuguse would have stayed on the Olympic roster page.
A bonus question: do "reserve runners" that relay teams bring to Olympics count as Olympians, even if they did not get to run?
Where does this idea that he's on the Olympic Team roster mean he's an Olympian? That has nothing to do with the actual definition of "Olympian." It's black and white by definition - there is no grey area on this. Tons of people make Olympic Teams around the world and never compete in the actual Olympics for various reasons (injury, family emergency, drug test, etc.). They aren't Olympians if they don't compete in the Olympic event.
I can't understand the grasping at straws argument that is based solely on emotion that somehow, someway, Nuguse is an Olympian when he didn't compete in a single event (because as it's been said over and over and over the requirement to be an Olympian is Olympic event competition). I didn't make up that definition but that's the definition.
AP5000 wrote:
Master of LoIIy wrote:
Playing chess with pigeons is frustrating. The challenging bit is, that people with very limited thinking capability think they're right and / or smart and there is no other way to see things.
Then Engels would have been an Olympian and I'm not so sure that Nuguse would have stayed on the Olympic roster page.
A bonus question: do "reserve runners" that relay teams bring to Olympics count as Olympians, even if they did not get to run?
Where does this idea that he's on the Olympic Team roster mean he's an Olympian? That has nothing to do with the actual definition of "Olympian." It's black and white by definition - there is no grey area on this. Tons of people make Olympic Teams around the world and never compete in the actual Olympics for various reasons (injury, family emergency, drug test, etc.). They aren't Olympians if they don't compete in the Olympic event.
I can't understand the grasping at straws argument that is based solely on emotion that somehow, someway, Nuguse is an Olympian when he didn't compete in a single event (because as it's been said over and over and over the requirement to be an Olympian is Olympic event competition). I didn't make up that definition but that's the definition.
This is exhausting. Go to
https://www.teamusa.org/usa-track-and-field/athletes/Yared-Nuguseand tell me what you see.
Also you did make up a definition, as I don't see a single quote. As per Oxford dictionary, you have to be "a competitor at Olympic games". A good lawyer can prove in many different ways how Nuguse was a competitor even before the 1500m heats began. That's why he is listed as Olympian by the US Olympic Committee.
If you would have your own business, you would understand a term "competitor" a bit better.
we are all runners and know wrote:
The US does not bring relay pool members who do not compete.
The US submits a relay pool while at championships, of athletes at the championships. If they take them, they are running, even if it’s just a heat.
Other countries do take reserve runners though. Are these athletes Olympians or no?
So, another question then:
Is Leroy Dixon an Olympian? He was a part of the US Olympic 4x100m relay team in Beijing and was supposed to run in the final. However, the team lost the baton in the heats and did not advance to the final, so Dixon did not get to run at all.
Competitor means someone who competes. Not someone who withdraw.
Nuegue didn’t complete in his event. He withdrew.
Shakari Richardson qualified for the Olympics but she was withdrawn. She’s not an Olympian.
The only way to 100 percent, with no room for doubt or debate Olympian status is to compete in your event.
we are all runners and know wrote:
Competitor means someone who competes. Not someone who withdraw.
Nuegue didn’t complete in his event. He withdrew.
Shakari Richardson qualified for the Olympics but she was withdrawn. She’s not an Olympian.
The only way to 100 percent, with no room for doubt or debate Olympian status is to compete in your event.
Nuguse didn't withdraw. He was a DNS. I think it has a lot to do with intent. He intended to run, but couldn't.
If you withdraw, you take your intent back.
If he was dumb and vain, he could have started, and stopped after 3 steps because of pain. Would that have made him more Olympian?
NJ NY wrote:
They are doing that because they lost respect for him when he withdrew from the Olympics. They are spelling all of the Olympians' names correctly.
There is no honor in running a race when injured. Ritzenhein was criticized for running and dropping out of the 10,000m at the 2004 Olympics - the one where he qualified by finishing last at the Olympic Trials.
You are correct. The problem is that he travelled with the team and reaped the benefits rather than notifying the team that he was injured.
versy tile wrote:
You are correct. The problem is that he travelled with the team and reaped the benefits rather than notifying the team that he was injured.
If you qualified for the Olympics, and have an injury that might or might not clear up before the heats start, it would be prudent to hope for the best. I seem to recall we were aware of an injury. He's the one who qualified and gets to decide. Sometimes it doesn't work out.
I'm sure he could have gone to the starting line, limped a few steps and stepped off. That would absolutely satisfy the critics in this thread that are claiming he isn't an Olympian based on what they have said in this thread. But it doesn't really make sense to do. There's no difference in real world.
So he is an honorable non Olympian.
Worst Olympian in the history of the Olympics or not an Olympian?
That’s what this debate is in a nutshell.
Master of LoIIy wrote:
Is Leroy Dixon an Olympian? He was a part of the US Olympic 4x100m relay team in Beijing and was supposed to run in the final. However, the team lost the baton in the heats and did not advance to the final, so Dixon did not get to run at all.
Love this thought experiment. I'm not sure if there is a correct answer for Leroy Dixon. Feels like he's right on the line. I lean on the side that he is an Olympian because he was a chosen member of a team and the team competed in the Olympic games. Sort of like the backup goalkeeper who sits the entire tournament on a soccer, hockey, or field hockey team.
An Olympian is a a "competitor" in the Olympic games. A competitor is "a person" who takes part in an athletic contest. A competitor can also be an organization or country engaged in competition.
When you have chosen members of a specific team, and that specific team plays, I think the team's members are competitors and therefore Olympians...including substitutes.
Here, though, Nuguse was not part of a team, he is his own team. When he pulls out before competing, it's like his entire team pulled out before competing. Nuguse, to me, isn't equivalent to Leroy Dixon. I think Dixon's olympian status is really close/questionable. I don't think Nuguse's is.
Read this with George Carlin’s voice:
So we’ve gone from every participant gets a trophy to now giving non participation trophies. Let’s give audiences trophies too. I watched the Olympics on tv. I’m an Olympian! We a are all Olympians. Can’t be exclusionary! I intended to qualify for the trials. I intended to make the team. I intended to compete at the games. I’m an Olympian. I identify as an Olympian. I identify as a female Olympian! My pronouns are Olympiyn and Olympixn!
Fuuuck you!
Kipchoges Grandma wrote:
Master of LoIIy wrote:
Is Leroy Dixon an Olympian? He was a part of the US Olympic 4x100m relay team in Beijing and was supposed to run in the final. However, the team lost the baton in the heats and did not advance to the final, so Dixon did not get to run at all.
Love this thought experiment. I'm not sure if there is a correct answer for Leroy Dixon. Feels like he's right on the line. I lean on the side that he is an Olympian because he was a chosen member of a team and the team competed in the Olympic games. Sort of like the backup goalkeeper who sits the entire tournament on a soccer, hockey, or field hockey team.
An Olympian is a a "competitor" in the Olympic games. A competitor is "a person" who takes part in an athletic contest. A competitor can also be an organization or country engaged in competition.
When you have chosen members of a specific team, and that specific team plays, I think the team's members are competitors and therefore Olympians...including substitutes.
Here, though, Nuguse was not part of a team, he is his own team. When he pulls out before competing, it's like his entire team pulled out before competing. Nuguse, to me, isn't equivalent to Leroy Dixon. I think Dixon's olympian status is really close/questionable. I don't think Nuguse's is.
Nice. Very good arguments here.
What if we see it like this: If USA is a participant in the Olympic Games and Nuguse is a part the participating US team, then doesn't it make him an Olympian?
thanks
Why so much hate on these boards?
The argument of if Nuguse is an Olympian or not is fair. It's a matter of semantics but I tend to agree that he should not be labeled as an "Olympian" since he didn't participate.
The attacks on his character, though, are not warranted. He seems to be a good guy and not a drama queen like so many of the other young runners. He probably had a valid reason for not running in the Olympics. He had to have one. If given the chance to compete in the Olympics there is probably not a person alive that would turn that down. He probably also had a valid reason for not participating this weekend at Millrose. Whatever is up with him, I hope that he comes around. He's obviously a huge talent.
we are all runners and know wrote:
Craig engles was the backup 1500m runner the US team? Is he an Olympian?
If you don’t compete you aren’t an Olympian.
It’s like in track, members of the relay pool don’t get a medal. But even if you run only in the heats, you get a medal if the team wins one.
The key is you must compete to be eligible.
Nguese didn’t complete.
No, I disagree with this. In team sports, the burden to compete is held at the team level. It’s a binary, all encompassing yes or no for all individuals that made the team.
If the team competes, all of its members are Olympians regardless of perceived or quantifiable contribution. If the team does not compete, none of its members are Olympians.
If I go to the Olympics as a member of the basketball team and play 0 minutes, I’m a member because the team played. In team sports, availability is contribution. Hence, players who play 0 minutes still get medals.
In track “team” sports like relays, participation is contribution. If I’m a member of the relay pool but do not run, I’m not an Olympian. Hence, players who do run any round of the relay don’t get medals.
This is post I meant to quote.
blank name wrote:
Is the backup goalkeeper for the gold medal winning soccer team an Olympian? He/She probably didn't play a minute but got a gold medal. I don't know where I stand on the debate to be honest but it doesn't seem so cut and dry.