Jakob Ingebrigtsen Wins, Then Loses (Is Dqd), Then Wins Euro 1500 Title

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

We go through the same silliness year after year with traffic mayhem on tracks that aren't fit for crowded races. Why is this tradition still alive?

Europe has one of the finest transportation networks in the world and there's no reason why its elites need to be racing indoors. Look at the weather in Athens for example, 67 degrees forecast tomorrow. Just run outdoors.

Whole system needs an overhaul.

I fully agree with you, but you need to explain to me why Vastenburg's appeal got rejected for this:

https://www.instagram.com/stories/jipvastenburg/2522824444458399986/

(hope you have IG and able to watch, 1st story)

She was in the leading pack, finished 3rd in a race where top 6 moved on to the 3000m final and got DQ'ed for not even stepping fully on the white line, but merely TWO INCHES on it. Meanwhile Jakob pushes people, gets himself in trouble, steps inside with the full foot not even on the LINE, but OUTSIDE of it but gets overturned? WHY? I studied economics and math and I just don't understand why one is an overturn and the other is not.

The winner of the same 3000m race, MIŠMAŠ-ZRIMSEK also got DQ'ed for the same reason. In the 400m heats, people also got DQ'ed for stepping on the white line.

The only explanation I have is that Jakob is too important, European Athletics was afraid of Gjert and Jakob really making their threat come true and go home if they don't get what they want and therefore issued him preferential treatment.

Budda wrote:

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

That's true, but that's because they got the same treatment as he did - break a rule, camera proof, DQ. There are at least 3 or 4 runners who QUALIFIED for semis/finals but got DQ'ed, so we're not talking about someone who would have got last anyway.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvqNQVyXEAkaVPs?format=png&name=small

Vastenburg got DQ'ed for a small misstep, in a race she easily qualified for the 3000m final. You will have a hard time explaining why this was worthy of a DQ and Jakob's full step inside was not. She didn't do anything with her competitors, just lost focus for a split second yet there is no overturning. Jakob meanwhile pushes other people around (not just the Polish, but also the British guy at the start which was even more needless), but gets reinstated simply for the fact that a lot of European T&F success depends on him and his brothers and he got a massive following behind him.

This is preferential treatment, we are not treating all athletes the same anymore which should be the case, whether it's a 8:45 3k girl or a 7:25 3k guy. All of them are working incredibly hard to get to where they are at.

If we are, it should at least be made obvious for everyone:

- Classify runners in championships in category A (normal) and B (preferential)

- Design two separate rulebooks - for athletes A auto-DQ for stepping inside line, starting too early in sprints, etc. For preferential athletes B design separate rules that allow them some leeway in the rules.

Everyone else who got DQ'ed in this meet took it with grace, realized their mistakes, and moved on. Look at the Instagram profiles of the runners who got DQ'ed and lost their spot in the finals, most of them wrote about it. If Jakob is getting special treatment, it should be announced as such, and not just hand him a "yellow card" and a "warning for unsportsmanlike behavior" which are the things now standing next to his title in the results list.

I know reason is a bit challenging for you LRP, but I'll give it a try.

What you need to understand is that he situations are not similar.

The dutch girl stepped on the line without being pushed.

Jakob stepped out of bounds after being pushed.

The first warrants a DQ by rule, the 2nd doesn't.

Don't know why this is difficult to understand.

From reading this thread it's obvious that bias dictates what people see.

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

We go through the same silliness year after year with traffic mayhem on tracks that aren't fit for crowded races. Why is this tradition still alive?

Europe has one of the finest transportation networks in the world and there's no reason why its elites need to be racing indoors. Look at the weather in Athens for example, 67 degrees forecast tomorrow. Just run outdoors.

Whole system needs an overhaul.

I fully agree with you, but you need to explain to me why Vastenburg's appeal got rejected for this:

https://www.instagram.com/stories/jipvastenburg/2522824444458399986/

(hope you have IG and able to watch, 1st story)

She was in the leading pack, finished 3rd in a race where top 6 moved on to the 3000m final and got DQ'ed for not even stepping fully on the white line, but merely TWO INCHES on it. Meanwhile Jakob pushes people, gets himself in trouble, steps inside with the full foot not even on the LINE, but OUTSIDE of it but gets overturned? WHY? I studied economics and math and I just don't understand why one is an overturn and the other is not.

The winner of the same 3000m race, MIŠMAŠ-ZRIMSEK also got DQ'ed for the same reason. In the 400m heats, people also got DQ'ed for stepping on the white line.

The only explanation I have is that Jakob is too important, European Athletics was afraid of Gjert and Jakob really making their threat come true and go home if they don't get what they want and therefore issued him preferential treatment.

how embarrassment wrote:

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

I fully agree with you, but you need to explain to me why Vastenburg's appeal got rejected for this:

https://www.instagram.com/stories/jipvastenburg/2522824444458399986/

(hope you have IG and able to watch, 1st story)

She was in the leading pack, finished 3rd in a race where top 6 moved on to the 3000m final and got DQ'ed for not even stepping fully on the white line, but merely TWO INCHES on it. Meanwhile Jakob pushes people, gets himself in trouble, steps inside with the full foot not even on the LINE, but OUTSIDE of it but gets overturned? WHY? I studied economics and math and I just don't understand why one is an overturn and the other is not.

The winner of the same 3000m race, MIŠMAŠ-ZRIMSEK also got DQ'ed for the same reason. In the 400m heats, people also got DQ'ed for stepping on the white line.

The only explanation I have is that Jakob is too important, European Athletics was afraid of Gjert and Jakob really making their threat come true and go home if they don't get what they want and therefore issued him preferential treatment.

Quit while you're behind, Philly

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

JohnnyS wrote:

Yes, absurd attempt at an inside pass in a curve when there was no space. Ended up with one foot on the other side of the line

There was absolutely no need for him to do that stupid move. Inexperience literally cost him the title.

He had everything going for him:

1) His shoes (dragonfly spike prototype) were far superior.

2) Lewandowski is aging, 33 years and VO2MAX going down year after year puts him at a clear disadvantage.

3) Due to COVID, there were extremely few spectators so the massive "home crowd advantage" that Lewandowski would have had was pretty much non-existent.

4) His PR, as well as season best were far superior to Lewandowski and the others.

All he had to do was go to the front right at the start and don't get mixed caught inside in 5th place. Then he noticed that Lewandowski is going to run super slow so he can kick at the end and was in a hurry to get to the front, collided with the other Polish runner who rightfully didn't make room for him (why should he?) and stepped outside. Absolutely fair DQ, there is like zero reason why a challenge would ever be accepted.

I admit that Jakob was fitter and would have won, but he lost due to his inexperience and own mistakes. Just because it's indoor and turns are tight does not mean he can do whatever he wants and forget about rules.

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Lewandowski is gonna smoke him. It's a championship race, not some rabbited WR attempt. People here vastly overvalue Jakob's fitness because he has some good times and does well off good pacemakers leading him.

Fact is he couldn't break 1:46 last year in a perfectly paced time-trial last year and not a single of his performance showed that he got the speed to hold off someone like Lewandowski on the last 1-2 laps.

This will be a repeat of what happened 2019. The thing is there is not even one case of how the race is going to go that would favor Jakob:

1) He starts very fast from the get-go, Tim style. Lewandowski would just sit behind, take it easy and pass him at the end when Jakob is out of gas from all the frontrunning.

2) He starts a strong kick "600 left". He will bonk somewhere before the finish line and Lewandowski will be there to finish it.

3) He takes it easier and gets to 400 left with Lewandowski next to him. If Lewandowski is there with Jakob with 400 to go and it's not a crazy fast race, it's over at that point.

His best chances are if Lewandowski falls or if he gets DQed (many runners got DQed already due to stepping inside). But in a regular race, it does not look too good for him. He has to wait until Lewandowski retires before he has a chance for Gold.

Also funny that every major race LRC thinks Jakob will win. In 2019 Indoor EC, the forums were all about Jakob making the double. Then Lewandowski won. The same year, people thought he would medal for sure in Doha WC, some even thought he could challenge time. He couldn't even get top 3, once again behind Lewandowski. The mistake here is always thinking "better PR or better SB = wins", when it's actually a championship race.