WTF SERIOUSLY: Lornah Salpeter just ran 2:19:46 Prague ein

VIPAM wrote:

Lornah Salpeter (12 Dec 1988)

800m

2:10.34........... (2013)

1500m

4:30.54...........(2013)

3000m

9:26.47............ (2013)

10000m

35:37.59..........(2012)

31:33.03......... (2018)

Marathon 4 races

2:40:10......1).........2016

2:40:22......4).........2017

2:24:17......1).........2018

2:19:46......1).........2019

Looking at those marathon times for the last 3 years - 2.40, 2.24, 2.19 - she's due to hit 2.15 sometime soon. There isn't any reason, based on that kind of annual progression, to think her rate of improvement is going to slow down at this point.

I know you're jesting, but diminishing returns may come in to it.

Diminishing returns wrote:

I know you're jesting, but diminishing returns may come in to it.

Why? No evidence for it yet.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Diminishing returns wrote:

I know you're jesting, but diminishing returns may come in to it.

Why? No evidence for it yet.

It appears that you are not very bright. Her improvement has already slowed markedly, but even if it had not, the lack of evidence of it having happened would not be dispositive regarding its eventuality. That said, of course she is probably doping.

If you mean after Firenze Marathon - not so much, it's based on the similar system.

If you mean "what changed" between the 2h40 Lonah to sun2h20 Lonah, is what I was referring to at the beginning;

1. 8kg loss of body fats (From July 2017 up to now), in a very accurate program (Lonah is weighing her food to accuracy of 1gr).

2. The support of the strength training which never used before 2018.

3. This 2 allowed Lonah to increase the intensity of training in some way that she was not able before.

4. The Special block that we are using is a bit different from what Renato is usually putting in his athletes program, I've found the right mix that works good for her, in every part of the preparation.

Above all, the confidence has growing step by step to compete with the best in the world.

Hi, Dan

Thanks for sharing all the fascination information

How do you see the path of the further improvement for Lonah ?

Is it improving 10K/HM and from there taking the improved speed to Marathon

or becoming more specific to Marathon paces and needs.

Thanks,

Alex.

Lollop wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Why? No evidence for it yet.

It appears that you are not very bright. Her improvement has already slowed markedly, but even if it had not, the lack of evidence of it having happened would not be dispositive regarding its eventuality. That said, of course she is probably doping.

She improved 5 minutes in the last year from 2.24 to 2.19. 16 minutes lopped off the year before that. You're assuming she's peaked at 2.19. Why? Her annual rate of improvement suggests otherwise, unless she now stays at 2.19. How do you know she doesn't have the capacity to take another 5 minutes off?

Armstronglivs wrote:

Lollop wrote:

It appears that you are not very bright. Her improvement has already slowed markedly, but even if it had not, the lack of evidence of it having happened would not be dispositive regarding its eventuality. That said, of course she is probably doping.

She improved 5 minutes in the last year from 2.24 to 2.19. 16 minutes lopped off the year before that. You're assuming she's peaked at 2.19. Why? Her annual rate of improvement suggests otherwise, unless she now stays at 2.19. How do you know she doesn't have the capacity to take another 5 minutes off?

Can Trump not just annex Kenya or something?

Diminishing returns wrote:

I know you're jesting, but diminishing returns may come in to it.

Prague isn't a fast course. Quite a bit of it is run over cobblestones. It would surely be odd if she doesn't run close to 2:16 next year somewhere faster.

Coevett wrote:

Diminishing returns wrote:

I know you're jesting, but diminishing returns may come in to it.

Prague isn't a fast course. Quite a bit of it is run over cobblestones. It would surely be odd if she doesn't run close to 2:16 next year somewhere faster.

Yes it would be odd for Lornah to not be undoubtedly the second fastest female ever by next year. I'd bet she doesn't run under 2:21 ever again rather than betting on her running 2:16.

Takinadump wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Prague isn't a fast course. Quite a bit of it is run over cobblestones. It would surely be odd if she doesn't run close to 2:16 next year somewhere faster.

Yes it would be odd for Lornah to not be undoubtedly the second fastest female ever by next year. I'd bet she doesn't run under 2:21 ever again rather than betting on her running 2:16.

+1

Hi Alex

I would say both directions.

Lonah can still improve a lot even 1500-5000m, 10k-HM with the training done so far, and with the base that is provided by the Marathon training.

In the other hand, I can tell that her Specific Marathon training is far from being 100% of the potential (in other words, not very specific) because she is still young athlete (even though she is 30 yo, she is training professionally only 2-3 years).

Dan Salpeter wrote:

If you mean after Firenze Marathon - not so much, it's based on the similar system.

If you mean "what changed" between the 2h40 Lonah to sun2h20 Lonah, is what I was referring to at the beginning;

1. 8kg loss of body fats (From July 2017 up to now), in a very accurate program (Lonah is weighing her food to accuracy of 1gr).

2. The support of the strength training which never used before 2018.

3. This 2 allowed Lonah to increase the intensity of training in some way that she was not able before.

4. The Special block that we are using is a bit different from what Renato is usually putting in his athletes program, I've found the right mix that works good for her, in every part of the preparation.

Above all, the confidence has growing step by step to compete with the best in the world.

What I find surprising about Lonah's progress is that her basic speed (quite limited) on the track should indicate limits to her corresponding long distance times on the track and the road.

She has improved a lot, but it is still surprising to see someone with former modest track credentials improve that much.

R.C. comments that Lonah has a good running technique, as viewed when he advised her and Dan during their stay in Kenya.

What is the limit for Lonah? I don't know - but as someone correctly pointed out, Prague is not the fastest course, and so if progress continues, she might get down even lower than 2:19.

I used to run and train in Israel when visiting and working at the Mishmar Hasharon Kibbutz, in Netanya (back in 1986). At that time, the guru of Israeli long distance running was Yair Karni, who was affiliated to one of the Sport Institutes in Netanya - Karni discovered and developed many good runners at that time, but the standards these days seem to be lower. At that time, quite a few Israeli runners gained scholarships at U.S. universities like Clemson and others.

Training in Israel can be good. In Netanya, there were plenty of dirt paths, lining the orange and citrus fruit plantations, and we could run for miles on soft ground without touching pavement. In addition - the Israeli diet is one of the best in the world, with plenty of fresh fruit, vegetables and delicious side dishes like hummus (made from chick peas) and falafel and other healthy foods similar to the Med. diet schemes with Israeli /Arab variations.

Going by the integrity of Dan Salpeter, one has little reason to believe that Lonah is not clean and as Dan affirmed, the repeated tests on Lonah over the past few years also confirm this to be true.

Ghost in China

Dan and R.C. are right that many pundits immediately react, knee jerk like, as soon as someone runs an outstanding time. Some points to consider.

1. Lonah has been running for years, and her progress has been logical except for the fact that more rapid than most.

2. She has expert coaching from Dan and R.C. - R.C. is one of the best, if not the best coach for l.d. runners on the planet.

3. The environment in Israel can be perfect for running. Summers are hot, but breeze from the sea, or training in other places is very doable, because humidity in general is fairly low. Winters are just about perfect. It rains, but rarely more than one hour or so.

4. The diet is one of the best in the world and promotes health and longevity.

5. Very scientific approach to sports, whether basketball, football or athletics. Some of the best sport scientists on the globe.

6. Israel part of the Euro Athletics community so can compete there and not restricted to the Middle East where opportunities are less.

7. One assumes that Lonah has the basic genes for success. Her earlier times are not reflective of her true abilities, She ran 35/2.40 on basically 40 minutes of jogging per day without formal structured training.

Hopefully the sky will be the limit.

Ghost in China

Another doping apologist appears with the nonsensical, "completely abnormal progression is totally logical...it's the Israeli dirt trail training, falafel, and untapped potential" diatribe. In two separate posts, no less.

There is every reason to doubt, no matter how much Dan and the shady Italian doth protest.

i dont know whether or not shes doping or totally clean,but whatever she is,i loved seeing an israeli woman win the europeans,last year.they very rarely produce top class athletes,and it was good to see.

There is every reason to doubt, for people IGNORANT who don't know anything about real training and his effect.

We don't care about people who want to speak without knowing anything about the argument of the discussion : this is the typical behavior of IDIOTS.

I'm accused to be "apologist" of doping, when instead I think the BEST WAY for facing doping is to REDUCE the idea of the effect on the performances (I speak about BLOOD DOPING ONLY, about roids / muscle strength there are no doubts that training only can't produce the same effects).

We know where is possible to arrive CLEAN : at WR in 2:01:39 in marathon, or 7:53.63 in steeple, for example. Or in 1'40"92 in 800m.

We know where is possible to arrive with training only, and NOT YET PERFECT : 26'30" in 10,000m with less than 3 months of specific training with big talent, or 12'49" in 5000m with great continuity for years but medium talent.

We know where is possible to arrive if you are WHITE EUROPEAN : 2:05:47 in marathon, or 59:13 in HM (and after those results, now there is a new European sunrise in Marathon).

So, if doping can give the advantages you think, it means that the DOPED WR of Eliud becomes 1:57', the WR of Shaheen becomes 7'45", the WR of Rudisha becomes 1'39", the 10000m of Nicholas Kemboi become 25'30", the 5000m of Thomas Longosiwa become 12'19", Sondre can run under 2:01 and Julien Wanders in 57'20".

Who is the idiot amont WHO KNOWS THE LEVEL OF CLEAN RESULTS ALREADY ACHIEVED BY CLEAN ATHLETES, and the "believers" in doping who don't know anything about training, don't know anything about talent, don't know anything about the REAL results, but have faith in reseraches carried out with different subjects, THAT CAN'T DEMONSTRATE ANYTHING APPLIED TO OTHER ATHLETES ?

Here, I don't deny the FACT that several top athletes used doping.

I don't deny the FACT that doping is widespread.

I don't deny the FACT that doping is a big business.

I deny the SUPPOSITION that without doping is not possible to reach performances THAT ALREADY CLEAN ATHLETES WERE ABLE TO ACHIEVE.

You are the one denying the REALITY, without having in your mind a second option.

You are obfuscated by stereotypes, and refuse to KNOW a part of the reality.

For that reason, you are a group of STUPID without any ability, and any interest, in analyzing ALL THE INFORMATION about the reasons at the base of top performances.

Not "mindweak", but of sure "limited minds".

Lonah not Lornah wrote:

Lornah Fan wrote:

Come on, before you claim to be a fan at least learn to spell her name right (same goes for VIPAM ofc).

Also I think as for now it's too early to think about competing against the likes of a fit Ayana, competition level is very high right now. E. g. Caroline Kipkirui who won Prague Half Marathon in front of Lonah by 25 seconds one month ago got beaten by 4 other women at Doha Diamond League (is there anyone btw who can tell more about why Kenyan runners like Kipkirui and Norah Jeruto are running for a Kazakhi club?)

Also thanks for the posts @Renato and Dan Salpeter

Caroline did similar last year, smashed a half early in the year then finished just behind the big 3 in the major d/league 5000’s

trollism wrote:

Israeli here wrote:

Nope, but her husband-coach (Dan Salpeter) went on a national olympic coaching program, toured the world and met with a lot of experts in this field. Once he came back all of his athletes have been progressing slowly (well, more accurately a major improvement followed by slow and steady improvements in each race) and have been very consistent.

Check his other elite athlete - Maru Teferi.

As for the whole marathon - Lonah took a long time figuring it out, and Dan decided to stop running it until she figures out the shorter ones. That's why she hasn't raced the marathon from London WC until Florence in Nov 2018.

Sounds legit.

Met some 'experts' and boom 2:19. Wonder what they were 'experts' in?

Ha! Lol, Italian pasta sauce