Boston Separates Elite Men's Start from Wave 1 Corral 1 by two minutes

Wow these people are idiots! Yeah lets screw over the men in the name of gender equality, that makes sense. It reminds me of title 9.

Americans who can't break 2:10 wrote:

butthurt .

Congratulations!! You just proved you are a 15 year old with a deficient IQ.

Didn't some nut sprint out to the front last year to get some camera time?

https://youtu.be/erswpH4s0Sk?t=1791

stupid article. pros can get stepped on and have no chance of getting up ten meters into the race

Best thing they've done for a while, keep the "look at me attention seeking wanna be social media whore types" well away from the cameras and the elite runners.

If they truly want to make it fair for everyone, start everyone at the same time. While they're at it, they should lower the women's qualifying time since 30 minutes more than the men is ridiculous. That makes it so easy, especially for the men who pretend to be women to qualify! Just ask Paula Radcliffe!

awomenwhoruns wrote:

I thought the masters' vet story was interesting. I bet women with a chance to earn money in the masters' vet category aren't all that fast, so I REALLY don't think they should be forced to start with the elites and run by themselves for 26 miles just cause they might win a grand. Perhaps for masters' and all non-overall womens' categories, prize money should just be awarded on gun time, full stop.

For the underlined portion, you mean chip time, right?

As for the top masters starting with the elites, I believe it's a USATF rule that all prize money must be awarded based on gun time.

I get why that is - the importance of head to head competition, etc. But at the same time, it often puts masters females in the position of having to line up at the very front, and risking creating a traffic hazard. (when in this situation, I always place myself to the far corner of the start, and then move off as far to the side as I can for the first few minutes after the start, to minimize this issue).

Let's highlight the fact that the "Elites" dropped out at a rate ten times that of the non-elites.

If the Boston Marathon is going to be so elitist about the prize money and literally having two separate races, while branding and covering them as one, I'd like them to be more strict with the elites. They already have an overwhelming advantage. Let's look at some of the perks of being an elite athlete at Boston Marathon:

1. Elite Athlete Village - they are invited to Boston well ahead of marathon weekend and treated to not just a private hotel room, an actual private hotel. It has all you can eat buffets for every meal, in house masseuses, quiet space for the athletes, coaches, and agents. No press and no public are allowed in the hotel.

2. Police motorcade to the start line - Elites get to sleep in longer and take a chartered bus with police escorts to the start line. No cramming onto school buses at 6am in the morning.

3. Indoor access at the Hopkinton school - they do not have to wait outside prior to the race. They are treated to the gymnasium, and depending on who you are, sometimes private rooms inside the school. They have their coaches, masseuses, trainers, etc. with them. They don't have to wait in line to go to the bathroom.

4. They always start at the front, even though they show up at the last minute.

5. Now they get to start 2 minutes early, in a completely different race than everyone else.

Even with benefits 1-4, 62.5% of elite men dropped out and 56.25% of elite women dropped out. 6 of these men, and 3 of these women were invited back to try again.

The recent moves look like a PR stunt between the agents for these runners and the race directors. The elite athletes don't want a fair race, and last year's race highlighted a bunch of areas were the 'normal' runners could compete for their prize money.

If they're going to be the only ones allowed to compete for the money, let's put in some penalties for poor performance. Personally I think any elite who drops out should be black listed from the elite field. Let's reward people who can sign up for a race, train for it, and actually complete it. This is an endurance sport, and enduring the race is what we're supposed to be training for.

What if some dude makes up the 2 minute deficit and still places top 15 crossing the finish line (gun time). Would they still not be eligible for prize money?

just wow... wrote:

Wow these people are idiots! Yeah lets screw over the men in the name of gender equality, that makes sense. It reminds me of title 9.

True gender quality is treating the different genders equally. This means starting men and women and intersex competitors on the same starting line making them run the same race and paying them according the order in which they cross the finishing line.

This is thread is full of a bunch of butt hurt whiners. So what a few 2:20-2:25 guys suddenly can't start with the elite pack. Oh no, this will hurt their gun time. Who cares, its has always been an issue for women in the same spot and previously nobody cared. Guess what, a women who isn't accepted into the elite field isn't going to start in the first corral so they are already at a disadvantage.

A bunch of men are suddenly slightly inconvenienced and now its a huge deal and your are going to boycott Boston? Good, I am pretty sure there are tons of people at home who are more than fine with this slight inconveniences.

I do agree slightly with Rojo's early response about running with elites makes this event so great, again this has only be a privilege for a small number of men. As it wasn't an option for women, so before this year nobody cares.

Elite athletes don't follow the same rules, in any sport. Get over it. It's two minutes.

To clear up a misperception, there are different guns for the different starts at Boston. So no one’s gun time will be affected by this (as a few people have said). There are just different groups starting off different guns (and, functionally, running in different races, which is the whole point of this change).

I don't understand why the Boston marathon is so hyped up? When Bill Rogers ran (at least from the jest from reading his book) it was a simple brass tacks marathon. What changed to make it so superficial.? You can go on and on about how the pros aka from Bostons standards UNDER 2:18 men and UNDER 2:45 women are the only ones that should start two minutes ahead. and the guy that ran a 2:20 trying to shed time off of his gun time or woman who ran 2:47 in the same situation should be sifting their way through a zoo just to try to cross the starting line. Why is it that the regular public knows pretty much squat about running but if they know you run the first question any bum to any grandma will ask is if you've ever run Boston marathon....it doesn't matter if you finish in 5hours you are only a runner until you do Boston....they really did some good marketing or something.

My husband wants to do Boston next year...I had originally wanted to do it but if I'm going to be putting a lot of training in for a marathon I want to give myself the best chance of running well and since I'd be shooting for sub 250 Boston is out...it's too elite...too hyped up and no longer a blue collar marathon (from the bill Rogers days).

zzzz wrote:

What if some dude makes up the 2 minute deficit and still places top 15 crossing the finish line (gun time). Would they still not be eligible for prize money?

W Korir back a few years ago in Chicago. That one was the RD's fault though because Korir hat tried to get into the elite start, but was not let in. Ran anyway and made up the 5 minute gap on most of the elite field.

And just to add...I loved last years marathon...god really evened the playing field sending a true New England type of race weather...I mean did they even have to bother drug testing any of the top finishers last yeast? And again I think the issue was that some of the women that ran and placed had asked to be a part of the elite racers but had been denied. And at the same time why should it matter for prize money that you don't start with the elites? In pro skiing they don't always have mass starts...many of their races for Nordic the skiers are starting at different times...what matters is how fast you completed the course and not all this crap about but the weather was different 5 minutes ago.

Full discretion -- I disagree with LRC often but I'm pretty much in agreement on this one. Correct me if I'm wrong but a lot of the drama that came with last year was because BAA was refusing the pay out the women who cracked the top-15 from the mass start? Wouldn't the solution be to loosen the elite start standards so that doesn't happen again? And the weather obviously played a huge role in that happening in the first place.

The argument that Erin Strout made goes something like this -- women have been dealing with this for a long time and now that men are subjected to the same kind of start they're mad so get over it. We have achieved equity under the new system. We have maybe achieved gender equity but can't we get there in different ways and can't we reach equity in terms of competition? ((no knock to Erin, I think she's a good voice in the sport, but this feels like we're trying to out progressive one another instead of talking to the impacted athletes -- the 2:20s guys and mid/high 2:40s and low 2:50s women -- to see what they would like to see implemented))

The "elite" standards are now 2:19 and 2:45 (same as the OTQ). Is it not possible that a man or woman will still crack the top-15 out of the mass start? Why not loosen the standards to 2:22-2:25 and 2:50ish? Make the standards known well ahead of time. Having an intermediate goal like that between an OTQ might help some people stay motivated in the sport. Make sure that people on the brink of an OTQ get to race with their competitors -- that feels like real equity. A 2:19:01 runner and a 2:18:59 runner are now running two separate races. A 2:45:01 and a 2:44:59 runner are running separate races as well? The difference? The 2:45:01 runner might run better drafting off of people in the mass start and will be thrilled with an OTQ. It probably helped a ton last year to be able to run in a giant pack vs. trying to run the same time with a lot less people. A 2:19:01 runner has to front run to try to get an OTQ. It takes away from Boston being a race where a Wave 1 Corral A runner gets to line up behind the worlds best. We'll probably see runners opt for other races. Boston had something special where it was a chance to see where you rank out of 30,000, many of which had to run a good age grade time to get there.

I just think a big part of the gender discrimination outrage was that Boston was trying to be cheap and play hard ball by saying rules are rules we're not gonna pay out the women who snuck into the top-15. They have money to pay out on the rare occasions that it happens but I would still be down with seeing looser standards. I remember in the early 2010s Boston would publish a longer "elite" list close to the race usually with people on it in the sub-2:25 and 2:50 range. A race with those kinds of resources could give people working full-time jobs the opportunity to race pros and get the elite treatment for a day. They should do that for as many men and women as possible. That is one way to get to equity.

Just my $.02.

It is about being fair game for women, but you clearly are not considered with that.

219 seems pretty generous, when you take into account that that's finishing three full miles behind the worls's best in major marathons. Furthermore, if you have other credentials like a strong half, 10,000, or you're a US champion, or something similar, you'd surely gain admittance to the elite field, even without a marathon time.

I do agree that a false sense of "equality" is a dumb reason to do this, but keeping the television seeking idiots out is a very nice side effect of this change, and protecting the elites from the masses and wannabes is a sound goal to have for a major race.

You asked to be corrected if you were wrong soo...

The women who cracked the top 15 was based on their chip time. They did not start with the elite women. This is why they are also separating the elite men. It is a step in the right direction. They should not have caved and awarded the women last year because I agree, they were in a different race because they started at a different time. If you want to run with the elites here is the solution: RUN AN ELITE TIME.