The Real Starky wrote:
She deleted her pinned tweet where she had her goal of winning Olympic Gold in the marathon.
Jerry made her do it.
The Real Starky wrote:
She deleted her pinned tweet where she had her goal of winning Olympic Gold in the marathon.
Jerry made her do it.
Prime Donna wrote:
She needs to stop acting like a diva and focus on training. Did you see the picture of her traveling to Chicago? She had more luggage than a Vanderbilt traveling on one of their trains in the 1890s. You don't need 10 suitcases to travel to a marathon to run 2:36. Give me a break and get serious.
The whole “brand” thing is kind of weird and seems foreign to me. But then again there is the whole Kara deal. Seems divorced from the process of finding actual success in the marathon.
moanswers wrote:
It's her first real marathon. She's been in serious marathon training for what, a year?? She's run one 1/2, a couple of 10ks and now a marathon and we are writing her off as this not being her best distance??
Isn't it kind of unrealistic to think she could knock it out of the park on her first one?
Unlike hasay, huddle, Rupp, and Farah she hasn't spent 5+ years in track building that speed and endurance. The specificity of marathon training takes time.
Tri training isn't the same. It's too soon to reap the benefits.
I don't know why you consider this her first marathon. It's not. Even if New York was run on what was supposedly sub-optimal training, it still counts as her first marathon. And I'm really not sure how sub-optimal that training really was. If her training was really so bad for New York, you'd think she'd have been able to improve much more than she did on a much faster course in her 2nd attempt. I don't fully agree with your "marathon training takes a long time to take effect" argument, but even if that were true, I'd argue that it was a training mistake to have her jump right up to 120 mpw.
I can make her faster
Let's be real....she's just not talented enough for the marathon. She's too tall and she's built for more mid-distance or track type stuff than marathon. At the highest level, everyone trains hard and everyone prepares. And talent is what determines who competes for the gold and who's just trying to make the trials. She's talented enough to win gold in triathlon but in the marathon it's just completely different. At best she's a US top 10-15 5k runner on the track if she does choose to focus on running.
Her NYC Marathon splits 2 yrs ago vs Chicago this yr are eerily similar. Mind you, she found out she was pregnant at NYC, and it's obviously a tougher course (esp the last 10K). It's like with all this added training and advantages, she hasn't improved at all. That's not a good sign, and something needs to change or give up the marathon experiment.
Honestly, how do you top Olympic gold? She struggles with the end of the marathon, so doing an Ironman sounds like a stretch.
2016 NYC:
https://results.nyrr.org/event/M2016/result/112
2018 Chicago:
not enough talent,,, wrote:
Let's be real....she's just not talented enough for the marathon. She's too tall and she's built for more mid-distance or track type stuff than marathon. At the highest level, everyone trains hard and everyone prepares. And talent is what determines who competes for the gold and who's just trying to make the trials. She's talented enough to win gold in triathlon but in the marathon it's just completely different. At best she's a US top 10-15 5k runner on the track if she does choose to focus on running.
I think that's right. It's not like she just discovered running. She ran in college and ran a reasonable number of miles in Tri. If she really wants to continue, then maybe drop the mileage down to 70 to 80 mpw and run a half. Houston in January would be a good one. She needs a good result to validate all these miles.
Prime Donna wrote:
She needs to stop acting like a diva and focus on training. Did you see the picture of her traveling to Chicago? She had more luggage than a Vanderbilt traveling on one of their trains in the 1890s. You don't need 10 suitcases to travel to a marathon to run 2:36. Give me a break and get serious.
What’s wrong with you? Please don’t subject us to this kind of opinion, it’s a waste of time.
And I wouldn’t say I am a fan of hers- I just have respect for any hard working runners, amateur or pro, including when they fall short of their goals.
Prime Donna wrote:
She needs to stop acting like a diva and focus on training. Did you see the picture of her traveling to Chicago? She had more luggage than a Vanderbilt traveling on one of their trains in the 1890s. You don't need 10 suitcases to travel to a marathon to run 2:36. Give me a break and get serious.
Could be she's dragging around a lot of baby gear. There's probably a car seat in there.
You need so much to go right in a marathon. This is a bad result but it's really her second marathon. Earlier this year Gwen was doing significantly less mileage, and they have been trying to build it up. I believe I heard it in a podcast interview that she was only doing about 80 to 90 miles a week. I'm not saying she's going to end up winning gold, but I don't think there was any reason to expect something spectacular today. She's still just trying to get her feet wet.
Continue the marathon training. Put in a couple of swimming workouts in there.
Run London in the spring. If she runs 2:2X (mid to low) then continue the marathon experiment. If not, then start training for a half ironman in the summer/fall 2019 and start the qualifying process for Kona in 2020 and shoot for a Top 10 overall result in Kona.
not enough talent,,, wrote:
Let's be real....she's just not talented enough for the marathon. She's too tall and she's built for more mid-distance or track type stuff than marathon. At the highest level, everyone trains hard and everyone prepares. And talent is what determines who competes for the gold and who's just trying to make the trials. She's talented enough to win gold in triathlon but in the marathon it's just completely different. At best she's a US top 10-15 5k runner on the track if she does choose to focus on running.
on this note of tallness. she struggled from the start. lead pack ladies, where following 2 guys it seems who were 1' taller than them. gwen also is 1' taller but could not tuck. I wonder if this made a difference. Also ... she can eat some more
Nsnjsjjsj wrote:
Continue the marathon training. Put in a couple of swimming workouts in there.
Run London in the spring. If she runs 2:2X (mid to low) then continue the marathon experiment. If not, then start training for a half ironman in the summer/fall 2019 and start the qualifying process for Kona in 2020 and shoot for a Top 10 overall result in Kona.
Why would London invite her? She is a foreign 2:36 marathoner. They would be wasting their money. She only runs in the elite to London if Nike pulls some strings.
Hounddogharrier wrote:
This is very very bad . I would , however, try a Spring ‘thon , but making Olympics looks a stretch
Hastings finished 20th in 2013 New York City Marathon in 2:42:50. Everyone counted her out. Hastings was on the 2016 Olympic team.
qkfwnwefi wrote:
Jorgensen is clearly over training. She's gone from like 40-50 miles per week (granted with a lot of cross training from the Tri) to well over 100 miles per week. Even with the tri training, she's training at a very different level and volume now. I don't think training with BTC is helping as she is likely overextending in every workout. Add that with the crazy mileage and she must be totally fried.
+1
Up to 120 miles per week. Her team seems to see this sort of mileage as the holy grail. The marathon training mileage that's just right for her could be lower, 90 to 100 miles. Like Steve Jones ran when he broke the WR in Chicago. Her recovery would be better and she'd be able to do the sessions needed to become a better, more well rounded runner. I don't think losing the triathlon weight has been good for her strength and robustness.
For the next 6-9 months I would suggest she trains and races like a 10k runner and have a long run of 18 to 20 miles every 10 days or so. Keep that 15:15 5k speed and improve on it. Race more. Even race some low-key marathons, like CIM to get some experience and confidence at the distance. Run under 2:30. Having 120 miles a week for "base" as the most important thing in her training plan is just making her tired. She's running tired. Cut 25 miles off that and start enjoying your running. The fever before this race has made it worse than it could have been. 2:31-2 maybe. So I wouldn't be too disappointed but change your training Gwen.
There are too many posts to read here, so I apologize if this duplicates anyone else.
If she had a "bad" race day as often happens, then she should get in another fall marathon like CIM (or sooner) before another build-up to a Spring race.
She might contend for a world championships marathon spot in 2019 as that is mostly a "developmental" race. I don't know if the qualification criteria fit her training and racing plans.
She might also contend for a world XC championships spot next February at the USATF XC championships. That may be a "detour" from marathon training, but it would be a good accomplishment for being a professional runner.
In spite of this bad result, being tall she's better off focusing on the marathon versus the track races she did last winter-spring.
Everyone here has it wrong. wrote:
....
Hastings finished 20th in 2013 New York City Marathon in 2:42:50. Everyone counted her out. Hastings was on the 2016 Olympic team.
Although you're not wrong on the facts, this logic is weak, and its weakness even has a conventional label: "the exception that proves the rule"
in the What's a successful run for Gwen Jorgensen thread I said that all she had to do was run sub-2:37 and get her qualifying time. I thought she had other things to learn in Chicago and getting a good time was not a huge priority for her, and, to be honest, I was expecting some Kipchoge-style drinks station theatrics from her to explain why she came to a big public forum for her debut. I was looking for a smooth, controlled, even-paced 2:35 looking comfortable, conditioned, and ready.
well, she got her qualifying time, but what we saw was not pretty. this was not smooth and controlled and she had to dig deep to get this. she ran 2:41 in New York off, essentially, triathlon training, and has now spent a year training specifically for this and improved by the shockingly small amount of 4:00. pr's at the marathon are very hard to come by but for someone with such ambitious goals I was expecting more than this and for it to look a lot more comfortable than it did. you only have to look at her splits to see that she started too fast and the wheels came off at half way.
to me, she has never really looked like a runner. she has always looked like a swimmer who is out of her natural element on dry land, but I thought she had the courage and the grit to overcome her weaknesses and I agree with other posters here who have said that the further she runs the worse it gets. she looked either under-tapered or over-trained, or both. before Chicago I thought making the team a very realistic dream for her but I gave her a very low chance of getting a medal of any colour in Tokyo. after Chicago my view is that it is going to be a lot harder to improve by another ten minutes than it was to get those first four, and she will not be on the team for Tokyo. unless she is prepared to take the long view and aim for 2024 instead, or the team behind her have some top-secret marathon training tip they have yet to unleash on her the dream died in the windy city.
cheers.
Everyone here has it wrong. wrote:
Hounddogharrier wrote:
This is very very bad . I would , however, try a Spring ‘thon , but making Olympics looks a stretch
Hastings finished 20th in 2013 New York City Marathon in 2:42:50. Everyone counted her out. Hastings was on the 2016 Olympic team.
Hastings debuted in 2:27 in 2011, was FOURTH in the 2012 OTs and then ran Chicago in 2014 in 2:27. What planet are you living on that "everyone counted her out" in 2016 and that her situation is even remotely similar to Gwen's? Come back to us when Gwen bangs out a couple of 2:27s.
Another giver of +1 wrote:
qkfwnwefi wrote:
Jorgensen is clearly over training. She's gone from like 40-50 miles per week (granted with a lot of cross training from the Tri) to well over 100 miles per week. Even with the tri training, she's training at a very different level and volume now. I don't think training with BTC is helping as she is likely overextending in every workout. Add that with the crazy mileage and she must be totally fried.
+1
Up to 120 miles per week. Her team seems to see this sort of mileage as the holy grail. The marathon training mileage that's just right for her could be lower, 90 to 100 miles. Like Steve Jones ran when he broke the WR in Chicago. Her recovery would be better and she'd be able to do the sessions needed to become a better, more well rounded runner. I don't think losing the triathlon weight has been good for her strength and robustness.
For the next 6-9 months I would suggest she trains and races like a 10k runner and have a long run of 18 to 20 miles every 10 days or so. Keep that 15:15 5k speed and improve on it. Race more. Even race some low-key marathons, like CIM to get some experience and confidence at the distance. Run under 2:30. Having 120 miles a week for "base" as the most important thing in her training plan is just making her tired. She's running tired. Cut 25 miles off that and start enjoying your running. The fever before this race has made it worse than it could have been. 2:31-2 maybe. So I wouldn't be too disappointed but change your training Gwen.
She should have the Robertson brothers train her. In interviews when asked about mileage they have the sense that mileage is a secondary factor. Recovery and getting the workouts in is what matters. She should cut down to 80-90 miles a week.