Maybe this is addressed somewhere, but this is an important consideration that I have not really seen addressed anywhere:
What would be the process of screening? to compete in the women's category.
At some points every woman had to undergo gender verification. We moved away from that quite a while ago. Then it was on a challenge system. That comes with its own problems.
If this proposal goes through would routine drug testing also be used for this?
I wonder why my thread about the Caster QOTD got deleted 🤔 it's still listed as "on the boards"
Spaghettimonster wrote:
I wonder why my thread about the Caster QOTD got deleted 🤔 it's still listed as "on the boards"
Care to summarize the quote and what you said?
LM wrote:
Spaghettimonster wrote:I wonder why my thread about the Caster QOTD got deleted 🤔 it's still listed as "on the boards"
Care to summarize the quote and what you said?
I saw that too, and frankly man I'm with you. Normally I try to avoid being homophobic or transphobic but yesterday's quote of the day from Caster Semenya really aggravated me. For those that didn't see the quote of the day it said "I don't have time for idiots, I don't have time for people who don't care about me." For context this quote was said by Semenya in response to a study that reported that women with abnormally high levels of testosterone have up to a 4.5% advantage on the track compared to women with normal levels of testosterone. I understand that Semenya is in a frustrating position because she is naturally born into an unusual situation where she was born a woman but possesses masculine qualities such as abnormally high levels of testosterone which grant her a competative advantage. I understand that this is stressful for Semenya, her competitors and for the governing body of the sport. It is stressful for Semenya because she has spent much of her life pursuing success on the track as a woman and if it were determined that she had a clear advantage over her competitors she might not be allowed to compete. It is obviously stressful for the other female athletes who do not have this testosterone advantage. And it is especially hard for the governing body of the sport because no matter what they do they are going to generate negative press which is bad for the sport. I say this because if they disallow Semenya there will be a massive kick back and as it is right now people are not happy with her being allowed to compete with this advantage. That all being said Semenya's comments about this are that of a child, I understand that her livelihood is being threatened and that she is in a lose lose situation, but handle it with dignity. She should address the issue and recognize that the study may hold some validity. Her response of," no one cares about me" is utterly absurd. B***h please! This S**t is not about Caster Semenya, it's about keeping the sport fair for the majority of people and Semenya should understand that. Granted I do sympathize with her situation and I don't wish that type of stress upon anyone, but for goodness sake handle it professionally. Also I think that the IAAF should make a standard level for testosterone for people who want to declare as women in competition. People need to realize that what they identify as and what they are, have been and will continue to be two separate things. For a person such as Semenya this would mean that she would have to have some hormonal treatment to lower her naturally high levels of testosterone, or that she would have to be disallowed from competition. Another fair solution would be to have someone like Semenya compete against trans-women and make an inbetween category, but I think that would come with even more problems for the IAAF. Again this will all get a lot of pushback from both sides but something needs to be done to ensure that the sport is fair for all competitors.
aguywhodoesstuff wrote:
LM wrote:Care to summarize the quote and what you said?
I understand that Semenya is in a frustrating position because she is naturally born into an unusual situation where she was born a woman but possesses masculine qualities such as abnormally high levels of testosterone which grant her a competative advantage.
Look, I think we need a clearer understand of human biology!
Semenya was almost certainly not born a woman. Semenya is almost certainly XY with testes that produce testosterone, and a slight inability in her body to turn testosterone and the other male hormones into secondary sexual characteristics. Or possibly she has not such difficulty but her male sexual organ simply didn't develop. It is possible she has a surgically created vagina.
But of course we are meant to sacrifice womens' athletics and not know the exact detail of any of this.
Is there really any such thing as "intersex"? All foetus start off as female and it is the development of the Y chromosome that makes them male. That means male characteristics develop. You do get XXY and XYY combinations (Klinefelter's and Turner's Syndrome) but they are extremely rare and invariably carry along physical and mental problems which would mean these conditions would not be represented in Olympic medal winning athletes.
been to Buj wrote:
1. What is the actual evidence that Niyonsaba and Wambui are hyperandrogenic? I'm with you on Semenya and maybe Wambui. But Niyonsaba is a svelte 5'5", 130 lbs. I've seen her up close and wouldn't look twice at her among group of small east African female athletes.
2. Have any of you ever been to Burundi? If you had, I suspect you would speak less rudely of Niyonsaba.
Still waiting for evidence on Niyonsaba...
Woman's Perspective wrote:
aguywhodoesstuff wrote:I understand that Semenya is in a frustrating position because she is naturally born into an unusual situation where she was born a woman but possesses masculine qualities such as abnormally high levels of testosterone which grant her a competative advantage.
Look, I think we need a clearer understand of human biology!
Semenya was almost certainly not born a woman. Semenya is almost certainly XY with testes that produce testosterone, and a slight inability in her body to turn testosterone and the other male hormones into secondary sexual characteristics. Or possibly she has not such difficulty but her male sexual organ simply didn't develop. It is possible she has a surgically created vagina.
But of course we are meant to sacrifice womens' athletics and not know the exact detail of any of this.
Is there really any such thing as "intersex"? All foetus start off as female and it is the development of the Y chromosome that makes them male. That means male characteristics develop. You do get XXY and XYY combinations (Klinefelter's and Turner's Syndrome) but they are extremely rare and invariably carry along physical and mental problems which would mean these conditions would not be represented in Olympic medal winning athletes.
Intersex is a real issue. While I did voice my frustration in the thread that got deleted, I understand that one can be born with Female external genitals and male internal genitals. The question is what to do to not let people with this condition have an unfair advantage, which the study cited in the original QOTD plainly showed to exist.
Caster is a male woman.
You guys. You are losing your minds because one woman runs 1:55 and beats another woman runnng 1:57, so you want the 1:55 runner to take drugs so she can only run 1:58 and therefore the 1:57 woman will beat her and win?
Do basketball fans get into these types of discussion about the WNBA?
Who cares?????????
Look a thing yourselves wrote:
You guys. You are losing your minds because one woman runs 1:55 and beats another woman runnng 1:57, so you want the 1:55 runner to take drugs so she can only run 1:58 and therefore the 1:57 woman will beat her and win?
Do basketball fans get into these types of discussion about the WNBA?
Who cares?????????
Do you really believe that 1:55 in the best Caster can do?
Look a thing yourselves wrote:
You guys. You are losing your minds because one woman runs 1:55 and beats another woman runnng 1:57, so you want the 1:55 runner to take drugs so she can only run 1:58 and therefore the 1:57 woman will beat her and win?
Do basketball fans get into these types of discussion about the WNBA?
Who cares?????????
They would if LeBron James grew a vagina and join the NBA. Moran.
Why not, at or before major competitions, have every athlete undergo a medical checkup, including heart examination, to prove health and to be equal to men and women?
Spaghettimonster wrote:
Look a thing yourselves wrote:You guys. You are losing your minds because one woman runs 1:55 and beats another woman runnng 1:57, so you want the 1:55 runner to take drugs so she can only run 1:58 and therefore the 1:57 woman will beat her and win?
Do basketball fans get into these types of discussion about the WNBA?
Who cares?????????
They would if LeBron James grew a vagina and join the NBA. Moran.
They would? Really? They would feel bad for the women he's playing against and post about it on forums?
And your argument is even worse because Lebron is one of the best ever male athletes in his sport. Caster would not even win my local high school dual meet.
asdfwe wrote:
Why not, at or before major competitions, have every athlete undergo a medical checkup, including heart examination, to prove health and to be equal to men and women?
That sounds pretty expensive and impractical, but it is one idea.
I was more interested in if IAAF had already established some sort of screening procedure.
LM wrote:
Spaghettimonster wrote:I wonder why my thread about the Caster QOTD got deleted 🤔 it's still listed as "on the boards"
Care to summarize the quote and what you said?
I too, am wondering why this was deleted.
Bojos, whats up?
Too long to read! Couldn't they just write a summary?
Woman's Perspective wrote:
Semenya was almost certainly not born a woman. Semenya is almost certainly XY with testes that produce testosterone, and a slight inability in her body
Please stop calling an XY person a woman.
An XY man is most certainly NOT a woman, which is the entire crux of the matter.
Look a thing yourselves wrote:
You guys. You are losing your minds because one woman runs 1:55 and beats another woman runnng 1:57, so you want the 1:55 runner to take drugs so she can only run 1:58 and therefore the 1:57 woman will beat her and win?
Do basketball fans get into these types of discussion about the WNBA?
Who cares?????????
You think Lebron James would be fine in the WNBA?
Only heterosexual and attractive women should be allowed to run professionally.
MAGA
The IAAF required athletes competing as women with high testosterone to take testosterone-suppressing hormones in 2014. Niyonsaba chose to sit out the year, while Semenya was relegated to not even coming close to sub-2:00.Within a few months of the CAS ruling overturning the IAAF policy, Niyonsaba was back at it: 2017 1:56.82 Lausanne (Pontaise) 06 JUL2016 1:56.24 Monaco (Stade Louis II) 15 JUL2015 1:57.62 Rieti (Guidobaldi) 13 SEP2013 1:56.72 Eugene (Hayward Field), OR 01 JUN2012 1:56.59 Bruxelles (Boudew
been to Buj wrote:
been to Buj wrote:1. What is the actual evidence that Niyonsaba and Wambui are hyperandrogenic? I'm with you on Semenya and maybe Wambui. But Niyonsaba is a svelte 5'5", 130 lbs. I've seen her up close and wouldn't look twice at her among group of small east African female athletes.
2. Have any of you ever been to Burundi? If you had, I suspect you would speak less rudely of Niyonsaba.
Still waiting for evidence on Niyonsaba...