could bolt hold the 100, 200, 400 and 800 world records at the same time within the next 3 years?

Bolt is at least 2-seconds faster in the 400 than the guy you mentioned. That speed should help him get closer to a 1:50 than a 2:01. Sounds like your guy gave up and jogged the last 200 (37-sec) if he came through the 600m in about 1:24 to finish in 2:01.

Look at Blake Shaw:

http://images.chron.com/blogs/prepsports/Blake%20Shaw%20on%20the%20move.JPG

Does this look like a sub 4:00 miler?

Nope, but guess what? He broke 4:00 this week. A football player, huge guy running sub 4. Makes you think Bolt could definitely go sub 1:50 if he trained specifically for it.

Runningart2004 wrote:

I don't care. He didn't do it, thus it didn't happen.

All this talk about potential and woulda coulda means jack.

Alan

obviously hard thinking isn't your forte

it's not even his potential - it's actuality

you can't run 19.32 without incredible 100m speed :

9.58/19.19

9.69/19.58

?.??/19.32

it's not hard to figure it out...

I know that Bolt is 2 seconds faster than my guy. What it shows though is there is absolutely no way in the world you would expect Bolt to be able to come close to the 800 world record. No way no how. Also yes the guy on my team probably started to rig and jogged it in a bit but guess what Bolt would have to do the same. You are talking about different physiological systems that guys like Bolt DO NOT WORKOUT.

Runningart2004 wrote:

It ain't got nothing to do with training.

He'll never break 44. He's a pure fast twitch beast.

Alan

This is why letsrun is such an unfathomable place. A guy like Alan is actually considered someone who knows about physiology, and people actually ASK HIS ADVICE on such topics, yet, yes, he regularly makes insane statements like the one above. How is this possible??!?! Let's examine it his insane statement:

"He'll never break 44. He's a pure fast twitch beast."

Alan, mr personal trainer, physiology expert, says that, DESPITE, despite the following facts:

1) Bolt just ran a 43.5 relay leg in a "fun" run he jumped into, with virtually no 400 specific training. FOR CRISSAKES ALAN, HE IS ALMOST AT SUB 44 (open 400) LEVEL RIGHT NOW!! Hello?!?!

2) Bolt is one of the most amazing 400 talents in history, running 45.3 as a SIXTEEN y.o. Clearly this tells you he is not a "pure" fast twitcher, since to run that as youngster shows he has always had some natural anaerobic/lactate buffering capability

3) He is by the greatest sprinter in history, and has constantly made any predictions about his limitations look silly.

4) he has already said he will target the 400 someday.

5) An expert like Michael Johnson has already stated that he thinks Bolt can break the 400 WR , which is WELL below 44 flat.

Yet, despite alllllllllllll those facts, Alan, mr personal trainer to elderly woman, declares, basically guarantees, that Bolt can't break 44.

You've always been dumb, but you've outdone yourself here.

Mike Rowe wrote:

I know that Bolt is 2 seconds faster than my guy. What it shows though is there is absolutely no way in the world you would expect Bolt to be able to come close to the 800 world record. No way no how. Also yes the guy on my team probably started to rig and jogged it in a bit but guess what Bolt would have to do the same. You are talking about different physiological systems that guys like Bolt DO NOT WORKOUT.

Your guy example was poor. For a few reasons including:

1)I don't think that anyone thinks that Bolt could break the record tomorrow. He would have to spend a whole year or two on it for training. Not just one attempt based off a season of 1000m repeats geared for 400m running.

2) It was your guys FIRST attempt. No one runs their fastest time ever on their first try. It takes a few tries to realize how to push yourself and to get the pacing correct.

3)Bolt just ran a time that converts to 43.XX in the open 400m. I don't know why everyone insists that he is capable of anything slower than 44 in the open right now. It does not take an elite sprinter .5 seconds to hand off. Look at Wariner and the rest of them. It takes about .3-.4 seconds.

4)Bolt is a world record holder at the 100 and 200. And is an elite level 400m. His athleticism is great. Do not think that there is anything that he COULDN'T do with the correct training.

Right now Bolt could hardly break 2:00 in the 800m.

All of your anecdotal evidence does not hold ground when comparing high school or college athletes to elites. Just because your sprinter friend only ran 22.xx and 50.xx but was able to run 1:58 does not automatically mean Bolt can run faster. Furthermore, it is ludicrous to say that Bolt could jog a 50.xx and come back in a similar time. HE IS A SPRINTER! He'd be dying after 450 meters.

As you train more and more for the short sprints, you get worse and worse at the longer events. Your body loses its capabilities in the distance events because it is recruiting its muscles and aerobic capacity for short races. Bolt has been training so hard for the 100m and 200m (more than any of your high school friends I imagine), that he'd likely be proportionally much worse at the longer races.

Who are you replying to?

I worded my post strangely, sorry. I was just replying to the general opinion on this thread.

You are all missing the physiology differences between the events. As I stated in my first post it would take him many years of specific 800 training to try to even approach a world class time. Don't try to tell me that he is a great athlete and not to put anything past him. He is a great sprinter. I will continue to hold distance events past him until proven different.

Mike Rowe wrote:

You are all missing the physiology differences between the events. As I stated in my first post it would take him many years of specific 800 training to try to even approach a world class time. Don't try to tell me that he is a great athlete and not to put anything past him. He is a great sprinter. I will continue to hold distance events past him until proven different.

It's an 800. It's his adjacent event. I don't see whats so ridiculous about that. A 5k? yeah i doubt that will happen, but one event up isnt such a far leap. How do you think El Caballo did it?

And several years? He's already got the speed part down. All he needs is to practice the endurance part. How many 800 runners have that benefit? I'd give him 18 months max to achieve world class times in the 800.

Though it is an adjacent event means nothing. It is about the physiology of the energy systems used. These charts vary but the ones that I think are the most accurate state that

200= 70% anaerobic/30% aerobic

400= 50% anaerobic/50% aerobic

800= 35% anaerobic/65% aerobic

1500= 25% anaerobic/75% aerobic

This shows that the aerobic system is being used a lot more during the 800 than a 200. So for someone like Bolt who is primarily a shorter sprinter he is able to hold on ok over the distance of a 400 but when it comes to the 800 it is entirely to far and too much of the aerobic system being used. Someone like Bolt cannot just expect to in a year build his aerobic system enough to get him ready. The same charts say that it would take about 2,400 miles of endurance training to maximize his aerobic system for this event. If Bolt went out and tried to run 50 miles a week for a year he would be injured in no time at all.

800 is not a distance event. I know you pimple faced high school f***faces think it is but it's not. It's a very very long sprint. Mike, listing one example of one person at your shitty college who couldn't do it is stupid. I know a 47 guy who only trained for the 200/400 who ran a 1:47.9. So that means Bolt could do it right?

Didn't I read a few pages ago that his relay leg was amended?

I'm just a realist. MJ never broke 10.0 so saying he could have run 9.5 or 9.7 or whatever is pure guesswork. Didn't do it, so never happened.

Even if Bolt's relay leg wasn't amended, it's still a relay, not open. Facts are he has yet to break 45 for the 400m open. Until that happens I'm not jumping on a bandwagon that still hasn't gotten out of the driveway yet.

You think Bolt is going to give this more than one serious attempt this year? He's still a 100/200 man and doesn't want to give up that for the 400m. He still has the Worlds in '11 and Olympics in '12 to focus on so this is just a "fun" year. He'll play around give this sub 44/WR thing one shot.

I'm not a genius, I'm not a physiologist, I'm not a coach to great runners...I'm just a 32 year old realist who thinks Bolt won't break 44. And saying he could break 1:50 is borderline retarded.

Alan

oregon rockasaurus wrote:

800 is not a distance event. I know you pimple faced high school f***faces think it is but it's not. It's a very very long sprint. Mike, listing one example of one person at your shitty college who couldn't do it is stupid. I know a 47 guy who only trained for the 200/400 who ran a 1:47.9. So that means Bolt could do it right?

I just gave you the scientific proof as to why he can't run a good 800 which I think we can all agree he would have to do to break the world record. He can't do it simple as that. I don't think he can break the 400 unless he trains for it hardcore which would be retarded due to the fact his money is in the 100/200. Like Alan said he will give it 1 or 2 attempts but he is not going to drastically change his training to do it.

I couldn't agree with you more Alan. I have for a long time shot down any chance at Bolt getting the 400m record. It just doesn't add up no matter how you look at it. Look at MJ's world record and past sprint times, then look at Bolt's. Bolt completely lacks the speed endurance needed to make it smoothly past the 300 mark into the finish. Just look at the speed endurance he lacks for the 200. He took it out almost over .3 seconds slower than his 100 meter record, and still couldn't match MJ's finishing hundred time of 9.19. Had MJ not stumbled out of the blocks in that race, it's not even sure if Bolt would have the 200 record right now. Bolt is a great sprinter, but that's all he is, a SPRINTER. Through and through. Probably the best athlete we've seen in track and field. But he's not a 400 runner. And if you still believe he's an 800 runner, I would reconsider your interests. Try curling, it's easier on the brain.

__________________________________________________________

Author: Runningart2004

Subject: RE: could bolt hold the 100, 200, 400 and 800 world records at the same time within the next 3 years?

Message:

Didn't I read a few pages ago that his relay leg was amended?

I'm just a realist. MJ never broke 10.0 so saying he could have run 9.5 or 9.7 or whatever is pure guesswork. Didn't do it, so never happened.

Even if Bolt's relay leg wasn't amended, it's still a relay, not open. Facts are he has yet to break 45 for the 400m open. Until that happens I'm not jumping on a bandwagon that still hasn't gotten out of the driveway yet.

You think Bolt is going to give this more than one serious attempt this year? He's still a 100/200 man and doesn't want to give up that for the 400m. He still has the Worlds in '11 and Olympics in '12 to focus on so this is just a "fun" year. He'll play around give this sub 44/WR thing one shot.

I'm not a genius, I'm not a physiologist, I'm not a coach to great runners...I'm just a 32 year old realist who thinks Bolt won't break 44. And saying he could break 1:50 is borderline retarded.

Alan

---------------------------------------------------------

All the times below are based on the ratio of a 44sec 400m to a 1:50 800m.

60sec 400m & 2:30 800m

54sec 400m & 2:15 800m

52sec 400m & 2:10 800m

50sec 400m & 2:05 800m

49sec 400m & 2:02.5 800m

48sec 400m & 2:00 800m

47sec 400m & 1:57.5 800m

46sec 400m & 1:55 800m

45sec 400m & 1:52.5 800m

44sec 400m & 1:50 800m

If your training for the 800 and you can run anywhere near the 400 time shown - then the 800m times are really soft (including the 1:50 800m time)! Anyone who has trained and raced both should be able to see that. The equivalent effort for a 44sec 400m is about a 1:42+ 800m so a 1:50 is a really soft time for a 44 sec 400m guy (especially if he is training for the 800). About the only thing that would prevent a 44sec 400m guy from doing a 1:50 800m would be if he was really a big and bulky guy which Bolt is not. The 800m at this level is a long sprint. Also, anyone running a 44sec 400 meter isn't just doing 100m-200m repeats either. They are doing a lot of longer stuff also. I read that one of Micheal Johnson's workouts was doing 2x450m in 48 something seconds. Also I read about some of the old 400m guys at UCLA (former olympians) doing repeat 600m workouts and I believe 6-mile runs in their build-up phase of training. To say that a non-huge dude who can run a 400m in 44 sec (which Bolt surely could if he trained and tried a few more times) and who is training for the 800 couldn't run a 1:50 800m is ridiculous. You must not have raced either the 400 or the 800 to make the kind of statements your making.

I agree it would be a very long shot for him to approach the 800m world record given he is a little big for going that fast over that distance but who knows? Alberto Juantorena just took up the 800 meters the same year he set the world record in the event in the Olympics (1:43:5 I believe). I don't think most expected something like that and he was a large guy and he hadn't been working on the 800 for very long either.

I meant Michael Johnson running 2x450m in 48 400m something pace.

Runningart2004 wrote:

I'm not a genius, I'm not a physiologist, I'm not a coach to great runners...I'm just a 32 year old realist who thinks Bolt won't break 44. And saying he could break 1:50 is borderline retarded.

Alan

Alan, I'm a 47 year old realist who says Bolt will break 43 in the 400.

You obviously haven't been paying the same attention to Bolt that three Billion other people have. He's actually rather good.