Sprinto wrote:
well somebody clearly failed school!!!
According to the link you sent; in 75 years Jamaica achieves a total of 26 golds in both Olympics and World Championships. This equates to domination? You're hilarious!!!!
France, GB and Germany and others have individually achieved more gold medals in track and field in the Olympics and WC respectively.
In 18 Olympics Jamaica achieves 13 gold medals. This shows that Jamaica were barely winning a gold medal in track and field per Olympic!!!. And If anything this statistic proves Jamaica were below average nation in Athletics.
lets look at their stats for World Championship athletics. Since the competition was introduced in 1983, Jamaica have won a grand total of, lets wait for it........ 7 GOLD MEDALS!!!!
Sixteen other countries have achieved more gold medals at World Championships than Jamaica.
9.58_InnaYuhBombo - Next time come prepared and you wont get schooled on the history of Athletics!
Can you read and understand anything? Are you able to fathom the outcomes if the USA had not been doping for decades? Here is some history for you. It's a reply I posted in another thread. Hopefully you don't also have ADD as it's long.
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I am confused wrote:
Logic, yes, thank you.
You make some excellent points.
First, Lance Armstrong dominated over a field full of dopers, and was almost surely a doper himself. Further, Tyson Gay going 9.71 unaided is dubious at best.
I absolutely agree that Bolt is a freak of nature - better than anyone who came before. If he were dominating at 9.78 I'd have less doubt. At 9.58 it reeks of the supernatural.
The Kenyans provide a parallel to the Jamaicans, but the logic behind Kenyan performance is well documented.
I'm willing to buy that Jamaica naturally has stronger athletes, but only with an explanation akin to what genetics, altitude, way of life, timing of emergence, etc. do for the Kenyans.
Training? There are no national differences with respect to that - athletes overlap coaches and training groups, and regimens and techniques are widely known. Chicken nuggets and yams aren't proprietary. Gay trains with a Jamaican. Just turned 20 Panamanian Alonso Edward (2nd 200 at 19.81) has trained in the US.
Surely Jamaicans have a greater interest and participation in track, but I don't believe that alone accounts for the differences we see in performance relative to population.
Please add more logic to explain not just Bolt, but the Jamaican dominance you begin to describe. If its genetics, then how? If its that track is Jamaica's national pastime, then break down the numbers to make a reasonable case.
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Yeah, yam and nuggets are getting a big laugh here. I live in a pretty rural area. You might be amused to know that McDonalds sets up trailers as a way to test local demand before building brick-n-mortar establishments. A few years ago they closed down the one near me. I went to place an order and the damn thing was gone! Maybe they might like to try again? I really miss that quarter pounder. LOL
To the subject at hand...
GENETICS:
There have been studies made right here in Jamaica in an attempt to explain not only the highly disproportianate number of calibre athletes with regards to capita, but also to explain the negative aspects.. the agression and violence that plauges the island. A strong theory that emerged is the role that slavery has played. Jamaica was literally the last stop for many slave ships on their Journey from Africa. During the months on the ships, the majority of Africans would die off. Many slaves were dropped off at ports in the USA along the way and were selected based on their ability to continue the journey. Only the hardiest were left on the ship for further ports. This is a documented fact as there are records held here from those times.
Here is an excerpt from a Washingon Post Article, be sure to read the last sentence:
"When the Henrietta Marie neared its destination of Jamaica, some 14 weeks after leaving Africa, it was carrying 190 Africans -- 90 men, 60 women, 30 boys and 10 girls. Some 60 others had died along the way, a not-surprising number, since more than 50 percent of the "cargo" often perished in the Middle Passage, and their bodies were tossed overboard.
The survivors were soon prepared for their arrival at port -- shaved, their skin oiled, their sores dressed. Small groups of men and women were allowed on deck for fresh air. All were fed larger portions of food for the remainder of the voyage.
On May 18, 1700, the enslaved Africans filed off the Henrietta Marie into Port Royal, according to Jamaican records from the time. Squinting in the bright sunlight after so many months below, their muscles tight and sore from more than three months of lying on their sides, they were delivered to Jamaica nude and branded with the initials H-M -- branding
was standard practice for all slavers. The next day, they were herded into the square at Port Royal and auctioned off to the highest bidder.
His work done, Capt. Chamberlain set a course for England a few weeks later."
... And it wasn't only the Africans. Jamaica was full of Europeans of the most violent kind. Jamaica, most notably the city of Port Royal was ground zero for the most notorious pirates who lived there and used it as base from which to launch their raids. It was called the richest and wickedest city on earth at the time. Unbelievably, almost the entire city sank into the sea during an earthquake. Divine intervention? Who knows.
Now mix all this together and you can see where the genetics factor comes into play.
Now here is how it breaks down physically. This is pulled from an article in the Jamaica Gleaner. Suggest you read the entire article but here is an excerpt...
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20080720/cleisure/cleisure3.html"Speed is in our genes, researchers at the University of Glasgow and the University of the West Indies (UWI) are concluding. The Glasgow research team has been studying the muscle physiology and genetics of athletes from around the world, including some 200 Jamaican athletes present and past.
At the base of sprint speed are the fast-twitch muscle fibres stocked with the speed protein Actinen A. And early data indicate that 70 per cent of Jamaican athletes have the gene for Actinen A. Only 30 per cent of Australian athletes studied had the gene.
A scientific paper published a couple of years ago by then UWI professor, Errol Morrison, who knows a thing or two about how the human body works as a medical biochemist and a world expert on diabetes, caught the eyes of the Glasgow researchers. Morrison's paper speculated about the underlying reasons for the exceptionally high performance internationally of Jamaican sprint athletes. Morrison now heads the University of Technology, which is contributing 21.5 per cent of the Jamaican team for the 2008 Olympics and runs a sophisticated, world-class scientific sports-training and sports-education programme."
Enough on Genetics, soccer and track&field/athtletics is indeed a national pastime. Please read this article as it will shed more light:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/aug/17/olympics2008.olympicsathletics1-----------------------
And you say training is not a factor because it's all the same? Lets examine that. How many trainers do you know that developed a programme for 6'4 sprinter? It's unheard of. A lot of time was spent developing his technique due to his height.
"In one of the published interviews, his coach revealed also that there were changes made to Bolt's running technique at that time which led him on a string of victories and straight into the history of sprinting two years later. That fact alone should make it clear that talent is great, but an improved skill is even better, and that's the real deal maker or breaker.
Bolt is a beautiful example of good genetics and raw talent reinforced by better technique. His running technique alone is far more superior than anyone else's in the recorded history of running. Compounded by his physical and psychological attributes, that seem to be superior to other athletes as well, Bolt paints the future of sports in radical colors.
Funny enough, some of the physical qualities that really contribute to his success, are traditionally thought of as negative factors. His height (6'4), for example, is deemed inappropriately tall for a sprinter. It is true, a tall dude with a bad technique is bound to be a mess. Yet a tall dude that uses his body's natural mechanics instead of powering through them - will always be ahead of the pack. Why? Simple. Geometry, physics and biomechanics at work, and they will work beautifully in synergy, if you let them.
An analysis of the footage from Berlin reveals that Tyson Gay (274spm) happens to have a higher cadence than Bolt (257spm). Bolt actually upped his cadence from 254 spm at the Olympics in '08. Gay's (18.6) and Bolt's (18.5) degree of falling (leaning forward) is virtually similar. Yet Bolt is taller (Gay is 5'11) and his technique is better, and the combination of all of that contributes to the difference in output and the result produced. More likely than not, the power runner Gay will never be able to run faster than Bolt. The same goes for Asafa Powell, who was considered to be the "promised one" by the Jamaican federation officials. Unless there is a change in their technique - the future belongs to Bolt.
One of the most significant differences in the technique of these three stars is their ability to use the forces at work when running. Both Powell and Gay try to muscle their way whereas Bolt uses gravity to his advantage, he describes it as "smooth sailing". In the game of muscles vs gravity, muscles will always loose and you can bet on that."
Well there you have it. There are those that will dismiss all this quickly without reading because their opinions are cemented. I hope that even If I don't change your opinion, I have somewhat opened your eyes. I'm not saying doping does not exist in Jamaica. The fact is that even doping could not account for the successess you are now witnessing. I'll say this with confidence, if any of the prominent athletes (IE: Bolt, Fraser) are busted with PEDS, they would have to leave the country or their lives would be in grave danger. Jamaica is small and not very tolerant,not like the USA, they could never merge back into society here.