Wellnow, I don't disagree with you. How about this... MOST American distance runners don't work on all the necessary running skills... just adding mileage. And as Shadrock so elegantly put it, they Kenyan's outwork us.
Note, I do think there are genetic differences, but I reiterate I think our top talents and their top talents are most likely equal. They just have higher proportions of their population who can run fast.
Yes there are genetic differences, they have darker skin which is bound to help in a marathon on a hot sunny day. Sun block is not match for melanin.
There are millions of white kids who can run fast, but they have other interests. There are a million other things in life to do.
WDDF wrote:
I 100% guarantee if you were to give me every 1500-10k NCAA D1 Finalist for 5 years, I could get 10 of them to the 2:04-6 level, 12:50-13:00 and 26:50-27:00 level.
If you gave me the counties top 20 milers and top 20 2-milers from high school graduation, I'm 100% confident I could do even better.
.
This is hilariously arrogant and delusional.
If you could do what you say, that would make you the greatest coach who ever lived x 1000, which you are not (why don't you produce a single 2:10 marathoner and get back to us?) You could produce a bunch of 2:04/05 marathoners out of a bunch of top american college kids??? What utter nonsense. You realize that no non-african in HISTORY has broken 2:06 or 27:00, right? Yet you, because of all your genius and common sense, could suddenly produce 20 such runners, if not better ?? If you are soooo confident about this, for crissakes go out and find a couple runners who fit your talent qualifications (which isn't that high: NCAA D1 finalist, or "top" HS runner) and produce us a single 2:04/5 marathoner or 26:50 10k runner. It shouldn't be that hard according to you. We'll be waiting.
Well, for once Lace-ajock I agree with you. If coaching was easy..........
the biggest problem coaching white boys to compete against Africans is probably their lack of self belief. Not so with white girls though. Wonder why that is?
wellnow wrote:
the biggest problem coaching white boys to compete against Africans is probably their lack of self belief. Not so with white girls though. Wonder why that is?
because not as many east african woman get into competitive running you dumbshit.
i love you "believe it and achieve it" bullshit spewers. If there were an ounce of truth to this, some of you dumbassess would be running 2:05 marathons.
but you're not. only kenyans and ethiopians are. this while their people are not superior at anything else. yet you think it's just their tenacity? haha....
wellnow wrote:
Well, for once Lace-ajock I agree with you. If coaching was easy..........
the biggest problem coaching white boys to compete against Africans is probably their lack of self belief. Not so with white girls though. Wonder why that is?
Because women's running, at the moment, is no where near as competitive as men's. Agreed, Paula's 2:15 is unbelievable and she is as driven as anyone in the world, but how many women, African or non-African, have come even remotely close to running what Radcliffe has? That's not even to say that men are more competitive than women but, from a pure numbers standpoint, more men than women are competitive.
the biggest problem coaching white boys to compete against Africans is probably their lack of self belief. Not so with white girls though. Wonder why that is?
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Why doesn't the rest of Africa have the self belief to compete against Keyans and Ethiopians in distance running?
AND
Running is NOT a skill. You do not learn to run fast.
Surely it's a combination of many factors, including self-confidence, talent, infrastructure, training, determination, work-ethic, coaching, etc. You must be strong in all factors to be the world best.
The staggering depth of Kenyan talent is intimidating. I think it's not "spewing BS" to say, that this does affect the self-confidence of many non-Africans, making the gap bigger than it really is.
There is a difference between being realistic, and selling yourself short. I'm sure it has turned some of talent away, to other sports, like triathlons, or soccer/football, or relegated them to local amateurs who get a regular job after university, and just run for fun, or become HS coaches.
Wealthy nations just have a lot more options to succeed in other things, with less effort.
Isn't efficiency all about your body learning how to run fast, for the same cost?
Hugo wrote:
...
Running is NOT a skill. You do not learn to run fast.
WDDF,
Do you have any credentials, or is this just bar-room bravado?
Who trains the way you recommend? If anyone, how did they get there? Do they burn-out, or get injured often?
How many Kenyans come out of nowhere, only to fall back into obscurity, replaced by next year's round of talent?
Ethiopians seem to manage their talent better.
Has anyone read Kiptoo's account on the frontpage? Seems like what he is saying is that the Africans that he knows work much much harder than us.
Africans are better because of genetic drift. they live and have adapted to one of the best endurance training areas in the world. because of there regions lack of infrastructure they have to commute by foot a great deal more then any of us. there basis for tribal living and poor economy has put more emphasis on living collectively instead of independently like us. i have a Kenyan teammate and he has stated that no one here trains as serious as they do. there poor no matter what so why work for next to nothing when they can train 3 times a day (6am, 10am, 4pm) and excel at running win one marathon and be set for life. this leads me to the next reason. they run for survival to them it can be life or death. no matter what we say we don't have that type of motivation factor. more about the region... they are around 2000-2400m elev., hilly, perfect temperature year round 75 degrees, low humidity. also, they eat bare essentials beef, rice, ugali, tea.
actual running they train more than they race. they don't change coaches 6+ times in a career. start from a young age, learning from elders, instill belief of greatness inside them.
they don't have distractions that we face.
on a final note
culture and mental attitude can only account for a small percentage of their success. all tribes and countries in this all-star running region are drastically different mentally yet all can perform at similar levels.
They are predisposed to be efficient runners but the big difference is weight. Tergat weights 130, gebreselassie, 119, bekele, 120. And they all have bodies like this almost across the board. It effectively makes the population of Kenya larger (or the pop of the US smaller) because ONLY extremely light weight people will be world class marathoners. I mean Galen weighs 138 and look at how skinny the guy is. Hes a heavyweight out there. It seems to me to be fact that to be an elite distance runner you have to weigh less than 134 pounds, end of story. It seems that every kenyan runner manages to come in under this number whereas relatively few US runners do.
Yes I do.
Haile G, Sihine and Bekele all train as I said. Komen, Bob K (before going to Marcus) did.
Some burn out, some get injured often, others thrive.
Bottom line.... what would you rather do... be German Hernandez and run 12:45-50 and 7:2? in the next 4-5 years and "burn out" at age 25, or be German Hernandez and have a career that lasts 15 years but runs 12:57-13:05?
And that is IF he burns out. He may very well not.
As the above suggests, I don't think Kenyans really think about what is going to happen next year, nor care. They want to maximize their potential while they can. Most of the time, that is when you are still producing a lot of testosterone (for regenerative purposes) and that falls off a cliff starting mid 20s.
WDDF wrote:
Bottom line.... what would you rather do... be German Hernandez and run
Who?? Learn the names of our best runners before telling the world you could produce 10 x the sub 2:06 and sub 27:00 non-africans than the all of the rest of the coaches in history have produce combined.
Stop it! You really dont know if they train as you said. You just picked the very top and are saying, see.. they're the best because they train like I said runners should.
In all your posts you've basically said train real hard, with a balance of speed and distance and the strongest will survive. Wow this is surely a different approach than anyone else has ever taken before. Very groundbreaking.
You sound alot like a road racer who doesn't understand that people have a finite capacity to train because you never approached yours.
What the heck do you think the Africans are doing while we're going to college and doing homework? They have more time to train than we do. We take little trips to Flagstaff for a training camp where we do nothing but run. Thats what they do all day every day and its government funded. If Fernandez was a Kenyan he'd be at a training center right now running with other elite runners. Instead he's here getting a degree. Is that the right choice for him? Almost definitely. But its why Americans aren't as good.
Tell that to Beranrd Lagat or the multitude of Africans who went thru the Ameraican College system and dominated.
thank you
If self-belief and tenacity are the only ingredients required, then I assume the Rift Valley All Stars will show up and win the Olympic Basketball Gold very soon.
Why are you taking this so personally Sir? And to another poster, I know that's how they train. And to a 3rd poster... keep thinking that our top guys outside of Hall and Ritz work as hard as their Kenyan counterparts. We don't. And on top of that, American coaching is not very good (Mahon and Jerry are exceptions).