Tergat on why non-Africans lose

Absolute BS. There are and have been thousands and thousands of European and American runners with exactly the same mental attitude but they still don´t run as fast.

its partly true, but the africans dont even uderstand the physiology behind it.

we understand it, but we sit on our fat butts during our youth while they are being very active.

i mean haile thinks God is involved in his running, those are his feelings, but I think that if a God exists, I personally feel like God wouldn't be concerned about running.

No, no! They can't be better!

top africans say shit like this all the time. it's disrespectful ("they're just not trying hard enough," etc.), and it's getting old.

Today, among others, Leroy Dixon will be racing 200 AND 400. Carmelita Jeter will be racing 400. These will be the second 400's for both in 2 weeks. Torri Edwards ran 400 two weeks ago.

These people probably have more medals in just the 100 than all US distance runners combined in everything. So why are they doing this--running a race they hate outside their main event? Because the Jamaicans are doing it.

Likewise, if you go through the results of some of the better local races in 2008 in Southern California last spring, you will see the name Christine Ohuruogu, racing 100 and 200.

What you see here is the attitude you DON'T see in US distance runners (I'm not talking about Lagat and Webb). This is the attitude you see in champions (US sprinters and African distance runners) and not in also-rans (US distance runners). The Africans get that mental attitude from knowing that they pushed themselves in training harder than their opposition. Unfortunately, their opposition knows this too.

malmo said it al and said it best,

I may not have the exact wording of the statement but many years ago he wrote something like this responding to why Africa produces many good racers:

"...there are a lot of small, driven, men."

mplatt wrote:

malmo said it al and said it best,

I may not have the exact wording of the statement but many years ago he wrote something like this responding to why Africa produces many good racers:

"...there are a lot of small, driven, men."

If he said that, notice that he said "small" first. In other words: physiology (and of course their small stature is only a small part of it) precedes their drive in the order of reasons why they are great.

Sorry coach, but you are living a myth. Oh wow, Torri Edwards is willing to race a whole 400m ?? What an animal! I am in awe of these sprinter's will to win!So let me guess, white sprinters(100 & 200) have a bad attitude about training and racing too, just like white american distance runners? They aren't willing to run outside their event, is that why the white sprinters can't touch the best black sprinters? What nonsense.American sprinters are great because we stole a bunch of west africans from their homeland, and other nations that are great at sprinting are also great because they have west african descended runners(Jamaica). PERIOD. Don't be delusional. If 99% of our black population was from east africa instead of west africa, we'd have very few great sprinters and a lot more good distance runners. If you can't see how far head talent-wise a Usain Bolt is or a K. Bekele is compared to sprinters or distance runners of european heritage than you are blind. It is absolute different league.

Sir Lance-alot wrote:

mplatt wrote:

malmo said it al and said it best,

I may not have the exact wording of the statement but many years ago he wrote something like this responding to why Africa produces many good racers:

"...there are a lot of small, driven, men."

If he said that, notice that he said "small" first. In other words: physiology (and of course their small stature is only a small part of it) precedes their drive in the order of reasons why they are great.

Furthermore, "a lot" precedes both "small" and "driven". For a Kenyan, running is a viable life career. Hence, a large number of them will pursue a running "career". Compare this to the number of Americans/Europeans who pursue a running career until they are at their physical peak.

The facts are that once you get out of college, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to continue training at an elite level. Unless you are an unquestionable star in the NCAA, and thus getting a (relatively) comfortable shoe contract out of college, why would you bust your ass running 90-110 miles a week with workouts while scraping by on poverty-line income? Rationally, it just doesn't make sense.

a miler wrote:

The facts are that once you get out of college, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to continue training at an elite level. Unless you are an unquestionable star in the NCAA, and thus getting a (relatively) comfortable shoe contract out of college, why would you bust your ass running 90-110 miles a week with workouts while scraping by on poverty-line income? Rationally, it just doesn't make sense.

Well, if that is their talent level to begin with, they were never gonna beat the africans anyway, so losing all those runners doesn't effect the equation (east africans dominate the world in distance running) anyway. Even the "unquestionable stars of the NCAA" who get a good contract and have a reason to keep working hard never come close to the true top of world (well, once in a blue moon a Teg or Hall is up there, but it is extremely rare and still not beating the best of the best by any stretch).

And by your logic, if more americans had shots at medals and top finishes in the major marathons, ie had shots at big prize money and glory, then more would keep running. Yes, they don't have shots at this, so they quit. But why don't they have shots at such prize money, medals and glory? Because it is being all taken by the east africans. Which is the cause of the other: the greatness of the east africans causing american runners to give it up, or the westerners quitting the sport making it easier for the east africans to dominate? I'd say it is the first scenario.

(and why don't whites sprint more and more successfully in this country? Is it too hard work? hardly. They find out quickly that they can't compete and move onto something else. The cream rises to the top).

dsad wrote:

its partly true, but the africans dont even uderstand the physiology behind it.

we understand it, but we sit on our fat butts during our youth while they are being very active.

i mean haile thinks God is involved in his running, those are his feelings, but I think that if a God exists, I personally feel like God wouldn't be concerned about running.

That's absolute B.S.

1. Your assumption that American's know the physiology behind running more than Africans is unsubstantiated. Do you really think that the average 18 year old high school American knows the physiology of running.

2. So what if Haile feels like God is involved in his running. American athletes do the same thing (look at Kurt Warner for example). If the U.S. dominated the world running scene, you would see American runners thanking God for their successes (Look at Ryan Hall), and that would be their prerogative. Who are you to say whether or not it is true?

The reason that Africans do well is that running is part of their culture MUCH more than it is part of ours. What sports do the top athletes in the U.S. play? Football? Basketball? Baseball? The majority certainly don't choose track and field. To assume that Americans are smarter or more logical than Africans is complete and utter bull. Their success is based on a mixture of all the arguments: attitude, altitude, competition, training, culture, etc.

We know how to match their altitude, their lifestyle, their training, etc. The only things we can't match are there genetics, and their attitude. I suspect it is one of these latter two, or a combination thereof, that makes the difference, much more than anything else.

BS alert wrote:

Absolute BS. There are and have been thousands and thousands of European and American runners with exactly the same mental attitude but they still don´t run as fast.

I agree a lot of what Tergat has to say. Before I went to Kenya I think I would have thought a lot of it was BS as well.

With the Kenyans, there is NO doubt they can be the best in the world. None.

A lot of Americans and Westerners have that doubt. If there is some mental doubt then there is no way to reach your physical peak.

German Fernandez is a great talent. Now imagine instead he is in Kenya. Immediately, he has to be at the top of the world or there isn't going to be much money for him. Guys he sees training, who look just like him, are setting world records and winning big races. Of course he sets that as the goal. He has to attain that or go and be a farmer.

Now put him in America. He's a great talent. Tons of people including Kenyans are talking about him (if you missed what Shaheen said about him at World XC click here:

). But the need to be the best in the world is not there. He can continue to grow in the system. But somewhere along the way he may pause and notice that there aren't a lot of people who look like him at the top. People start asking whether he can be the best in the world, and soon he may realize that he can get paid a few hundred thousand to just be the best American. I would argue that self doubt and his mind them limited him.

I met a guy (not girl) in Kenya who I think was running 2:06 for 800. He hadn't been running that long. I asked him whey he ran. He said he wanted to run professionally or perhaps get a college scholarship. A 2:06 800g thought this was possible in Kenya. We've got a lot of 13:45 guys wondering what they can do.

I had heard a story about Jason Sehorn the last white cornerback in the NFL and how they wanted him to play safety in the pros. I had heard he wasn't sure he could even play cornerback in the pros solely because he was white. So I googled it. There are a ton of articles on him being the last white corner. But even without thinking about it too much I have a hard time believing every black corner in the NFL has a huge advantage over every white person in America. Genetic advantage (assuming there is one for the sake of argument) doesn't alone explain why there aren't any white corners in the league. But if white guys like Sehorn aren't even trying to be corners in the league then the problem isn't going to change.

The fact of the matter is most Western runners put mental limits on what they can accomplish.

dsad wrote:

its partly true, but the africans dont even uderstand the physiology behind it.

Yes, but I bet they they have the command of at least one language.

There is a certain truth to what wejo says, but the problem is that the very best Africans are taken on the special 'programmes' and athletes that would be winning anyway are now winning in impossibly fast times.

if its all about attitude, than how come africa isnt good at ANYTHING else? its genetic, end of story.

Yeah, cause we are clearly lacking in small men in the rest of the world...

suck a d africa wrote:

if its all about attitude, than how come africa isnt good at ANYTHING else? its genetic, end of story.

hahahahahahahaha

wejo wrote:

The fact of the matter is most Western runners put mental limits on what they can accomplish.

Wejo's right. All these Americans and Europeans think "well I was a 4:30 miler in high school, so I should top out at about 4:20, maybe 4:15 if I'm lucky." Do you think the Africans thing like that? For them it's more like "my mile PR is 4:30, I'd better train harder if I want to get under 4:00." Is the prospect of a 4:30 miler breaking 4 5 or 6 years down the road crazy? Only to the Americans.

Even if we accept the position that Africans have, on average, much better genetics, that does not explain the dearth of ANY American world-beaters in the past several years. Even if the average American sucks compared to the average Kenyan, there must always be outliers among the population. Why don't we see any? It has a lot to do with training and mentality. The US has finally started to come around as far as training, but the mental barrier is much more important; you can train your ass off, but without the right mindset, you'll lose every time.