Cops beat 400lb man outside Burger King

Coroner: Ohio Man's Death Is a Homicide

By JOHN NOLAN

Associated Press Writer

CINCINNATI (AP) -- The coroner said Wednesday that a struggle with police was the primary cause in the death of a 350-pound black man whose scuffle with officers outside a fast-food restaurant has prompted outcry among black activists in Cincinnati.

Hamilton County Coroner Carl Parrott said Nathaniel Jones, 41, suffered from an enlarged heart, obesity and had intoxicating levels of cocaine, PCP and methanol in his blood.

Parrott said the death will be ruled a homicide, but added that such a ruling "should not be interpreted as implying inappropriate behavior or the use of excessive force by police."

Jones' death certificate will list a cause of death as an irregular heart beat because of a stress reaction from the violent struggle, Parrott said.

Impartial observer wrote:

i'll have to retract my statement above. the emts were there when the cops arrived but apparently left during the struggle, 2-3 minutes later. that blows my mind (what if a cop had been hurt?) and apparently the cops were surprised as hell too:.......................

I'm glad we are in agreement. I am encouraged that some people take the time to read the papers and inform themselves (even if it is after they form their opinions).

97-second gap raises concerns

Lawson: Tape may have been erased

For all the drama in the six-minute videotape showing Nathanial Jones's fatal encounter with Cincinnati police early Sunday -- Jones's lunge and punches at police, officers' repeated blows with their nightsticks, the distressing instant when cops realize Jones is not breathing -- the most crucial moments may be the 97 seconds when nothing can be seen.

Lawyer Ken Lawson, who represents Jones's family, has suggested that something perhaps happened in those 97 seconds that caused the violent situation to erupt, prompting the 350-pound Jones to swing at police, who then wrestled him to the ground and struck him more than 30 times with their nightsticks while trying to handcuff him..

"Since Jones wasn't violent towards anybody that night, what did police do that made the man so angry?" Lawson said.

"In a minute, 37 seconds, what made a man go from being calm and jovial to being outraged? If the man is not doing anything illegal, why did they try to place the man under arrest?"

When officers arrived at the White Castle parking lot, they did not view the call -- seeking help in dealing with a disorderly man -- as an emergency, and accordingly turned off their car, which in turn shut off the video camera.

Lawson, for one, is unconvinced by that explanation, and wonders whether the 97-second portion could have been erased to conceal scenes showing that it was police who provoked Jones. Some White Castle workers told him that is the scenario that occurred, Lawson said, though the lawyer would not specify how police supposedly agitated Jones, who on the tape can be heard calling one of the officers "white boy, red neck.''

"This guy was a regular down there," Lawson said of the White Castle. "They know him. (They said) he wasn't acting violent."

read first wrote:

I'm glad we are in agreement. I am encouraged that some people take the time to read the papers and inform themselves (even if it is after they form their opinions).

my brother is an emt. i know they would never leave a scene which is still active. because the cops arrived and the fire truck was still there, i assumed that three minutes later, when the perp went down, they would still be there. i can't believe emt's would leave a scene where police were actively trying to apprehend someone, especially when it only took 3 minutes. blows me away, but i was wrong! looks like the emt's will be disciplined for leaving. they should have been there.

Newsflash wrote:

"Since Jones wasn't violent towards anybody that night, what did police do that made the man so angry?" Lawson said.

"In a minute, 37 seconds, what made a man go from being calm and jovial to being outraged? If the man is not doing anything illegal, why did they try to place the man under arrest?"

Right on! I'm sure a guy with that much PCP and coke on board was acting "calm and jovial."

This lawyer, like many of his colleagues, should be beaten and clubbed to death on the grounds of basic stupidity and brazen bullshitting, even if his dead client effectively died of natural causes.

This thread does not qualify as the dumb thread of the day.

Regarding this - "'Since Jones wasn't violent towards anybody that night, what did police do that made the man so angry?' Lawson said."

Umm...perhaps he got angry when the police asked him to do anything, i.e. "step over here sir", "can I ask you a few questions?" The guy knew he had illegal drugs in his system - who like that wants any part of a police officer? It was clear he didn't like police officers or white people (he called them white rednecks).

Bottom line is it doesn't matter what the hell the police said to this man - he had no right to attack them.

its official....death ruled a homicide but not from brutal beatings. i guess being grossly overweight and out of shape combined with doing the coke, pcp and smoking ciggarettes dipped in methane all the while disobeying laws and police orders make him a nice guy. the family says he was a good man and would never hurt anyone....right...

Just an FYI for everyone, there is a second video, shot inside the store, which provides a different angle on the police struggle with Jones. I cannot view it right now b/c of the version of Real Player I have (cannot download updates).

Anyway, it is on the right-hand side under the video box:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/12/03/died.in.custody/index.html

??? wrote:

its official....death ruled a homicide but not from brutal beatings. i guess being grossly overweight and out of shape combined with doing the coke, pcp and smoking ciggarettes dipped in methane all the while disobeying laws and police orders make him a nice guy. the family says he was a good man and would never hurt anyone....right...

That's just wrong, dude. Here is what is says on CNN:

CINCINNATI, Ohio (CNN) -- The Hamilton County coroner Wednesday said the violent struggle over the weekend between 350-pound Nathaniel Jones and Cincinnati police officers was the immediate cause of the man's death and said his death will be ruled a homicide.

Rev. Jackson,

Even if it gets to that, there is such a thing as justifiable homicide, and if you watch the video, the struggle doesn't take that long. While the coroner has to make a ruling, he still also said that he had an enlarged heart and had all those drugs in his system and that those things combined with the exertion of fighting the officers was what killed him. Homicide schomicide - he died because of his actions. One good punch to the face or chest can kill, and he threw the first one, so can we think of him as comitting attempted murder? At a minimum it was assault, but if this was a homicide, then he committed attempted homicide.

Flagpole Willy wrote:

I swear where does all this disdain for cops come from. Some of you hate them, but then who do you call when someone breaks in to your house? I'm sure that was the cops' fault too.

The ACLU.

But it's too late to call them once your house has been burnd down or you're dead.

Flagpole Willy wrote:

He deserved the beating.

Right, it's all about beating the black man for you isn't it Willy.

Nothing about subduing him.

Just that he deserved to be beaten.

I hope you don't have any kids.

I support the fat guy wrote:

I have nearly zero compassion for fat dumb guys who snort coke and walk around bothering people; but I have less compassion for dumbass white cops who cruise around in racially tense towns and don't think about shit before they step out of their cars.

Very well stated.

dunes runner wrote:

Flagpole Willy wrote:

He deserved the beating.

Right, it's all about beating the black man for you isn't it Willy.

Nothing about subduing him.

Just that he deserved to be beaten.

I hope you don't have any kids.

Well, of course I have kids - I've said that many times here. Try to take the head off of a police officer and you deserve what's coming to you. How can you not find fault with what he did?

Dear Mr./Mrs. Citizen

Well, I guess you have figured me out. I seem to fit neatly into the category you place me in. I'm stereotyped, characterized, standardized, classified, grouped, and always typical. I am the lousy cop.

Unfortunately, the reverse isn't true. I can never figure you out. From birth you teach your children that I am a person to beware of. ("quick Johnny, put your seatbelt on, there's a cop behind us"). Then are shocked when they identify me with my traditional enemy...the criminal.

You accuse me of coddling juveniles, until I catch your kid doing something wrong.

You take an hour lunch, and several coffee breaks each day, then point me out as a loafer if you see me have just one cup.

You pride yourself on your polished manners, but think nothing of interrupting my meals at noon with your troubles.

You raise hell about the guy who cuts you off in traffic, but, let me catch you doing the same thing and all of a sudden I am picking on you.

You know ALL the traffic laws, but, never got one single ticket you deserved.

You shout "Abuse of Authority" if you see me driving fast to an emergency call, but raise 9 kinds of hell if I take more than 30 seconds responding your yours.

You call it "Part of my job" if someone hits me, but yell "Police brutality" if I strike back.

You would never think of telling your dentist how to pull a badly decayed tooth, or your doctor how to take out your appendix, but, you are ALWAYS willing to give me pointers on how to be a police officer.

You talk to me in a manner, and use language that would assure a bloody nose from anyone else, but, you expect me to stand there and take your verbal abuse without batting an eye.

You cry, "somthing has to be done about crime" but you can't be bothered to get involved.

You have no use for me what so ever, but of course it's OK for me to change a tire for your wife, or deliver you baby in the back seat of my patrol car enroute to the hospital, or save you sons life with CPR and mouth to mouth resuscitation, or even foresake time with MY famikly working long hours overtime trying to your lost daughter.

So, dear citizen, you stand there on your soapbox and rant and rave about the way I do my job, calling me every name in the book, but, never stop a minute to think that your property, your family, and maybe your life may someday depend on one thing.....ME.

Respectfully,

A Lousy Cop

Can't we all just get along?

Flagpole Willy wrote:

Well, of course I have kids - I've said that many times here. Try to take the head off of a police officer and you deserve what's coming to you. How can you not find fault with what he did?

So it's a license to not only beat the black man but to kill him.

I don't agree with anything at all about the guy, or his life style.

However, he did NOT deserve to be killed.

Where you and I disagree is that you, or anyone, as ruler of someone else has the right to do anything you want to them.

You do NOT.

It was wrong of them to beat and kill that man.

I hope they suffer the consequences and that it doesn't happen again.