It would hard for me to have even the smalest amount of respect for anyone who says they "can't stand Lagat." At the elite level, he's probably the finest person in the sport - along with being a great champion. If you can't even begin to appreciate that, you're worse than an idiot.
Any full results from the meet?
exactly... all i can picture of those who say that is a bunch of fear mongering white skinny losers who have nothing going on in their life and were educated with a banana and an inner tubeand to someone who said kenya is u.s.'s distance running enemy? please, we lost, we don't compete with themethiopia and kenya are the rivals... we don't even make the competition
Camoo wrote:
It would hard for me to have even the smalest amount of respect for anyone who says they "can't stand Lagat." At the elite level, he's probably the finest person in the sport - along with being a great champion. If you can't even begin to appreciate that, you're worse than an idiot.
shizzy wrote:
Also, I can't stand Lagat, he is as American as Toyota.
Ha -- you miss the real humor in your words, which is that, like Toyota, Lagat has outcompeted the "true American" product.
Really, Lagat is the very definition of American.
Lagat is the very definition of American: a mercenary full of greed, switching nationalities for financial freedoms (we all know how he duped the IOC into running for Kenya in 2004 and not sitting out... that and a failed doping test).
Lagat: great runner, not American
I just posted the results at www.americanmilersclub.com
Kung Fu hustle wrote:
There is a very good chance someone big (Lagat/Webb) isn't going.
Um, yes, there is a lot of talent coming into trials. But don't smear Lagat with Webb's crappy performances. Lagat has shown himself to be in excellent form. When did he last screw up at a trials race? Exactly.
Webb's times are competitive for the trials but it doesn't look as though he has any kick. He does not look in shape enough to run away from the field. A tactical final doesn't look like it plays into his hands either. I think he will have to rely on somebody else to keep the pace honest at the trials. Maybe Leo? He likes to lead.
How is it that people know that Webb isn't merely in the middle of some very tiring 110 mile weeks and training through his races before he begins his taper here soon?
loomdog wrote:
Any chance Webb is planning on running the 5k at the trials and Oly Games? Can he enter the trials and take the race out honest enough to insure an A standard time. Then kick like crazy with his (used to be 1:43/3:30) speed to make the team. Taper and sharpen for a month, and then be a legitimate threat at the Games in August? I have always thought he has better potential in the 5K.
My sentiments as well. He's probably the only other American next to Lagt capable of a sub-13:00 and would be the only guy in the field who's ever run 1:43 AND 3:46. He could start a sustained acceleration from 1200-1600 out. Whether or not he makes the Olympic team in the 1500, he won't medal in that event.
Hey Star Snack would you be ok if the chinese government offered all of the best athletes in the world 5 million dollars to switch nationalities and run for china in the olympics?
How would you feel if Webb, Manzano, Teg and Solinsky were going to the olympics as "chinese?"
Switching nationalities for cash and to avoid tough competition is bull and says something about the character of Lagat.
Lagat will not make a fourth Olympics unless he's running for Peru, Uzbekistan or Botswana. He'll be about 38-39 by 2012. He moved to America for money, yes, but also the quality of life. He had always wanted to move to America after he finished running, and he made that move near the end of his career.
The only thing that Lagat should be reprimanded for is running for Kenya in the last olympics while he was a US citizen. He's lived in this country for a very long time and obviously loves it enough to piss off his homeland. Who would want to run for Kenya anyway? There system is all screwed up. Right now, Lagat would have to be training in some camp with new coaches just to have a chance to be on the olympic team. I welcome Lagat and am proud that he is representing the US of A.
what does the 3:37 mean for lukezic??
Don't count Webb out for the 1500. He didn't look comfortable in the 800 and was in the back of the pack for most of the race and couldn't pass anyone at the end. After that, I thought his season was pretty much done for. But when he rabbited the 1500 about an hour later, he looked much more comfortable when he was in the lead. As long as Webb doesn't try to run from behind in the trials, he will be fine. If he puts himself in a position to have to pass too many guys, he could be in trouble.
Webb Race video is up and the rest of the videos are on the way.
http://www.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php?do=videos&pg=1&event_id=147&video_id=4719
So what information are you going on that he accepted 5 million dollars to switch nationalities. If the American government gave him sooo much money to come here and run for America then why did they let him run for Kenya in 2004? Because obviously they are paying him all this money to represent the US but they let him go ahead and run for Kenya and additional year and not say a word. I guess when you buy things you let the store keep it and use it for a year before you go pick it up out of pure niceness.
Also if the American boys want to switch nationalities and run for a foreign country then let them. I would rather have people that want to run for a America and have pride in their country. Lagat shows every time he runs and wins for the USA that he loves this country and wouldn't want to represent any other country. And for trying to Avoid tough competition didn't he almost not qualify for the World Championships last year getting forced back to third and having 4th right on his heals? Man he sure did come to a country that is just going to give him automatic spots on all the world teams.
Lagat is a great American something that can not be said about yourself.
I thought the posts were interesting and wished to comment on the topics.
1) Alan Webb’s coach is clearly in over his head, having been put in the awkward position of continuing to coach an athlete whose talent supersedes Scott’s understanding of the sport. It is not unheard of for a high school runner to emerge into the national spotlight within the structure of the local coach, but then move onto (presumably) better coaching. Why Alan left Michigan, which had attracted several top milers for Alan to train with and compete against, is the key to the puzzle. When I say puzzle, I mean why this guy can be a world beater and yet any race is a crapshoot as to how he will perform.
2) Alan appears to be overly trained a great deal of the time in the last several years. His coaching team (I include his manager Ray Flynn) seems to be using a combination of philosophies, with Lydiard’s pyramid at the core. Lydiard modified Cerutty’s system, but even Snell broke from Lydiard and very successfully (No Bugles, No Drums), as Lydiard boldly predicted that Davies would defeat Snell in the 1500m in 1964. Alan, especially when looking at his high school speed, appears closer to Seb Coe, meaning less distance base and a steadier diet of intervals would suit him better. Of course, this implies his technique improves, as he has no pop in his stride now. Last year’s World Championships was difficult to watch, as Alan forced (willed?) his way to a 3:34, his stride virtually flattened and without spring.
3) If he is pyramid tapering right now, so that he is “training through” the last couple of meets, then a double of 1:47 and a 2:53 1200m are very promising. However, knowing the level of tapering and concurrent training are, of course, critical to assessing his chances in the trials. When his coach announced after a 1200m time trial that Alan would race at Pre, I guessed Alan had run 2:52. However, he looked okay at 3:55 and pressed a bit toward the end of the race, so maybe he ran 2:50. If so, then this double (I don’t know the time between races and which race came first) is promising and suggests he may be sharpening for the trials.
4) Kenya’s running federation is a disaster to all but the Federation hierarchy (kind of reminds one of Pre and the AAU), so any Kenyan that can get out if that mess, well, more power to Lagat. A number of Kenyans are now running for various countries around the Middle East, changing their names. However, the side issue of a runner raised in this country and succeeding in the middle or long distances is not addressed by Lagat’s new citizenship. While nationalism fades, at least to some extent, there remains the destruction of America’s middle distance prowess in the 1970’s and 1980’s. I have always put Ted Banks at the heart of this, although other “coaches” quickly followed suit. Using a loophole in NCAA regs, Ted, who I heard his job was possibly in jeopardy at one time, brought over world class athletes in distances, crushing the American kids trying to compete. Kind of like putting a high school football star up against the pros. At some point, there will be little left to the kid. I remember some of my teammates, who were good distance runners, going to compete in an early season triangular meet my freshman year (I did not qualify for the traveling team for that meet). They got lapped in a 5K and were never the same again. Yes, WSU’s Rono set a world record, something he could not have done at 19. My first race was against the World Cup 800m gold medalist from 1977, who blew by me at the 200m mark (I guess a 25 opening 200 was boring him) and cruised a 1:46.5 in April. I predicted it would take 10-15 years after the closing of the loophole before US high schools were assaulting the 4 minute mile again, and that was about right. Therefore, I still pull for an American to beat Lagat as a sign the “system” is restored. I will do the same in the 5K and 10K. I am not so focused on the Marathon, as I remember watching Frank Shorter win it all.
Good post. I don't know how fair you're being to Raczko, it seems like he'd done a pretty decent job with Webb. Maybe one would have higher expectations for an 18-year old who run 3:53 and 1:47 as an 18-year old, but Razcko has got him to run 1:43, 3:30, 3:46, 8:11, 13:10, and 27:34. Maybe Razcko has not been specific enough in his training of Webb, even though its hard to not think Webb as train enough for the specific endurance of his displine- the 1500m/mile- but I do think that his Lydiard-centered approach will help Webb in the future if and when he starts racing more 5k's. Also, it is hard to blame Webb's racing tactics on Razcko, even though, as his coach you would think he would dicuss the best way for him to race and one would expect Webb to follow or at least work with his coach's insights into racing tactics. Maybe this was the case, in which case I might think Razcko's coaching of a world-class defeater slightly suspect, but Webb has just done some flat out silly things.
So Webb ran 3:55 and then the following weekend runs 1:47 and 2:53 at the same meet. Seems like a pretty good workout, wonder how his body is handling it. I really do not know how to best interpret those results as in terms of what kind of shape he is in. I would imagine he is in 3:53-3:54/3:34-3:36 shape right now, but there's no point in speculating. I have no money riding on him. Let's just wait and see what he brings to the trials. It'll be interesting to see what he's ready for.
MILE
3:53.97 Lopez Lomong (Nik) Eugene GP 06/08
3:54.68 Jon Rankin (unat) Eugene GP 06/08
3:55.47 Alan Webb (Nik) Eugene GP 06/08
3:56.00i Steve Sherer (APer) Wa Ind 02/02
3:56.98 -Leonel Manzano (Tx) Tx R 04/05
3:57.51i Bernard Lagat (Nik) Millrose G 02/01
3:57.82i Rob Myers (Reeb) Tyson Inv 02/15
3:58.16 Will Leer (OTC) Eugene GP 06/08
**Andrew Wheating (Or) Or R 04/26
I consider the top contenders for the u.s. mens 1500m team to be Lomong, Lagat, Manzano, Webb, Rankin, Sherer, Wheating, and Lukezic, but not in that order. Lomong, Rankin, Webb, Sherer, Manzano, and Lagat are all in at least 3:55/3:37 mile/1500m shape or better. If it were an all-out race, I think we could see 5 guys go 3:35 or faster at the trials. I hope Webb knows what he's doing.
Look how many guys have run 3:40 or better in the USA this year.
3:35.14 Bernard Lagat (Nik) adi Cl 05/18
3:36.36 Lopez Lomong (Nik) adi Cl 05/18
3:36.61 Jon Rankin (unat) adi Cl 05/18
3:37.84 Said Ahmed (Nik) Oslo GL 06/06
3:38.11 Will Leer (OTC) adi Cl 05/18
3:38.60 **Andrew Wheating (Or) Or Twi 05/09
3:39.74 Chris Lukezic (Reeb) Reeb GP 05/31
3:40.04 Matt Tegenkamp (Nik) Cardinal Inv 05/04
3:40.22 **Andrew Bumbalough (Gtn) Ellis Inv 04/19
3:40.25 Bobby Curtis (Vill) Swarthmore 05/13
3:40.35 -Leonel Manzano (Tx) NCAA MW 05/31
3:40.41 Jonathon Riley (Nik) Sun Angel 04/12
3:40.42 Alan Webb (Nik) Eugene GP 06/08
3:40.51 Steve Sherer (APer) Eagle Rock 06/07
3:40.52 **Andrew Acosta (Or) Cardinal Inv 05/04
3:40.58 Gabe Jennings (EugHF) Eugene GP 06/08
3:40.65 Sam Burley (Asics) Ellis Inv 04/18
3:40.68 Chris Solinsky (Nik) Sun Angel 04/12
3:40.73 -Matt Debole (Gtn) Ellis Inv 04/18
3:40.76 Grant Robison (Playm) Hillsdale 04/25
3:40.86 *Jeff See (OhSt) Owens Cl 05/02
3:40.89i Rob Myers (Reeb) USATF Ind 02/24
3:40.90 Brendan O’Keefe (Zap) Or Twi 05/09
3:40.92 James Hatch (unat) Or Twi 05/09
3:40.96 -Russell Brown (Stan) Cardinal Inv 05/04
3:40.98 Nick Symmonds (OTC) Cardinal Inv 05/04