His dad obviously looks in here and could answer this definitively. I've seen videos of his training. He does interval sessions in a group. Tanner is part of that group at least at times and the two of them are sometimes (at least) close to each other but I don't know if they do the same number of reps in a typical session. I imagine Tanner runs more mileage. Sam is doing about 60k a week. Last I knew he was on Strava but you needed to request to follow him.
60k per week? That really is schoolboy level. Do you think that adequately explains how he is now running close to the times that a former Olympic great ran on 160mpw (the Lydiard formula)? At 16. And after only two years of training?
As for interval sessions - there is nothing new in that. It has been part of the sport for most of its history.
The only explanation left is a freakish level of talent the sport has likely never seen before. That's asking a lot.
I think he's freakishly talented. Has to be to run so fast,so young. Some people are just gifted at certain things,and his gift is running. Whether its through drug use,or clean,to run sub 1.46 and 3.38 at 16 is extraordinary. You dont do that without a lot of natural talent. Now whether or not he can improve and go on to have a long career remains to be seen. He might end up injured,and out of the sport by his early 20s,or he might go on to win olympic gold.
60k per week? That really is schoolboy level. Do you think that adequately explains how he is now running close to the times that a former Olympic great ran on 160mpw (the Lydiard formula)? At 16. And after only two years of training?
As for interval sessions - there is nothing new in that. It has been part of the sport for most of its history.
The only explanation left is a freakish level of talent the sport has likely never seen before. That's asking a lot.
I think he's freakishly talented. Has to be to run so fast,so young. Some people are just gifted at certain things,and his gift is running. Whether its through drug use,or clean,to run sub 1.46 and 3.38 at 16 is extraordinary. You dont do that without a lot of natural talent. Now whether or not he can improve and go on to have a long career remains to be seen. He might end up injured,and out of the sport by his early 20s,or he might go on to win olympic gold.
All near the top of the sport are freakishly talented; they are a tiny fraction of the competitive population. That he is talented is not disputed; whether he is assisted by something more is the question. Many at the top of the sport are. In the end, you have to ask can you believe what you are seeing?
Regarding the questions about Sam Ruthe's training.
He does around 90km/week now when in base training. In the last 5 weeks before is 3.53 mile pb tonight, it's dropped down to about 60km/week as he's been racing almost every week.
In base training, he seems to do pretty standard stuff, looks like a V02-max interval session once a week on Tuesdays or Thursdays, along with a threshold session on Saturdays, usually something like 1km or 2km reps on the road at ~3.05-3.10/km (quite a few videos of these sessions on Instagram - either his dad's account or the training group's account). Also does a long run on Sunday I believe, around 16-18km (10-11mi) easy pace. Aside from that, it's just pretty standard easy runs, he also does some easy bike rides for crosstraining.
Last few weeks there hasn't been many big sessions - just some light but fast 200m/400m reps etc. in between all the races.
Obviously his progression is pretty astounding, but I'd keep in mind that he didn't really run at all until 14, so maybe 2-3 years ago. That would explain at least part of the rapid improvement, as all runners improve quite quickly in the first few years after they start training, especially when they are extremely consistent, are able to avoid injury, train smartly and have good guidance and support, like Sam does. Combine that with the fact that he already had at least a decent aerobic base from lots of swimming training prior to starting running, a lot of physical growth, and clearly very good genetics, the progression can make sense.
Anyway, it'll definitely be interesting to watch his next few races! Also quite curious if/when his coach will have him doing a bit more mileage and maybe more threshold sessions.
So you're essentially saying his exceptional achievements come from unexceptional training. Also, while significant improvements can be expected after entry in the sport it is virtually unprecedented that a middle teenager can go from a beginner still in puberty to near equalling Jazy's former world record in just two years.
If this kind of improvement is seen as credible then nothing invites scepticism.
So you're essentially saying his exceptional achievements come from unexceptional training. Also, while significant improvements can be expected after entry in the sport it is virtually unprecedented that a middle teenager can go from a beginner still in puberty to near equalling Jazy's former world record in just two years.
If this kind of improvement is seen as credible then nothing invites scepticism.
I recently did an analysis of men's world record progressions, looking at how much world records progressed in 25-year intervals during the last 100 years. This is what I found for the 1500m:
1925-1950: 4.1%
1950-1975: 4.8%
1975-2000: 2.9%
2000-2025: 0.0%
For almost every event I looked at from 400m to the marathon, the period from 1950 to 1975 had the largest percentage improvement.
Jazy ran his mile world record in 1965. Is it plausible that a teenager could run about as fast as him 60 years later with all the advancements that have been made in the sport since then? One way to look at it is to consider what teenagers were running in 1965 and compare them to the world record 60 years before them.
The world record in 1905 was 4:15. Teenagers were running much faster than that 60 years later. I wonder what elders thought about that in the 1960s.
So you're essentially saying his exceptional achievements come from unexceptional training. Also, while significant improvements can be expected after entry in the sport it is virtually unprecedented that a middle teenager can go from a beginner still in puberty to near equalling Jazy's former world record in just two years.
If this kind of improvement is seen as credible then nothing invites scepticism.
I recently did an analysis of men's world record progressions, looking at how much world records progressed in 25-year intervals during the last 100 years. This is what I found for the 1500m:
1925-1950: 4.1%
1950-1975: 4.8%
1975-2000: 2.9%
2000-2025: 0.0%
For almost every event I looked at from 400m to the marathon, the period from 1950 to 1975 had the largest percentage improvement.
Jazy ran his mile world record in 1965. Is it plausible that a teenager could run about as fast as him 60 years later with all the advancements that have been made in the sport since then? One way to look at it is to consider what teenagers were running in 1965 and compare them to the world record 60 years before them.
The world record in 1905 was 4:15. Teenagers were running much faster than that 60 years later. I wonder what elders thought about that in the 1960s.
Yep. Jim Ryun ran 4:07.8 on 9 months training as a HS soph. He would have crushed the world-record holder from 40 years earlier, Paavo Nurmi. There are extreme outliers, it simply just happens, and now we have threshold training in the mix, which has definitely had major impact despite the denials from the usual suspects. Sure, record breaking slows down as times get faster, but that’s not linear either. In the early 70s there was a leveling off noted by some, auch as in the 800m where the record had been equaled twice, but had been sitting for 9 years, then all of a sudden it was beaten. Same in the 100 yards etc. The altitude aided sprint and jump marks from Mexico City ‘68 then added to the fun of course.
Read the book “The Sports Gene” by David Epstein - there’s a chapter on genetics and trainability, it’s fascinating and gives great insight into what aome outliers naturally possess over others. Ryun is just one of the notable outliers chronicled.
I think he's freakishly talented. Has to be to run so fast,so young. Some people are just gifted at certain things,and his gift is running. Whether it’s through drug use,or clean,to run sub 1.46 and 3.38 at 16 is extraordinary. You dont do that without a lot of natural talent. Now whether or not he can improve and go on to have a long career remains to be seen. He might end up injured,and out of the sport by his early 20s,or he might go on to win olympic gold.
He and Cooper are very physically developed at age 16 for the age. That doesn’t mean they are tapped out at all as some of the biggest improvements come from training and gains that built up over years (for many this is age 19-23, for these guys it’s likely ages 17-21). But it also means that Cooper running 1:37 because a physically undeveloped Bryce Hoppel was a 1:53 guy at age 16 or whatever is irrelevant. Ditto Ruthe and whatever Hockers PB was.
For Ruthe the next step will be to become competitive in big-boy races. Myers took steps towards it last year, but he scuffled at Worlds and on the circuit had some ups and downs. It looks like this year he’ll be there as he’s taken a leap. The crazy thing was Laros emerged in 2023 out of nowhere as a factor on the senior global stage, and last year he was dominant until the Worlds final. Jakob like Laros came of age in 2019 quite quickly before a slight disappointment at Worlds. Lutkenhaus I think is already capable, his Tokyo flameout notwithstanding. Ruthe has plenty of time, and I’d love to see him in the NCAA.
I think he's freakishly talented. Has to be to run so fast,so young. Some people are just gifted at certain things,and his gift is running. Whether its through drug use,or clean,to run sub 1.46 and 3.38 at 16 is extraordinary. You dont do that without a lot of natural talent. Now whether or not he can improve and go on to have a long career remains to be seen. He might end up injured,and out of the sport by his early 20s,or he might go on to win olympic gold.
All near the top of the sport are freakishly talented; they are a tiny fraction of the competitive population. That he is talented is not disputed; whether he is assisted by something more is the question. Many at the top of the sport are. In the end, you have to ask can you believe what you are seeing?
I dont know enough about him,or his training to give an opinion one way or another.That and i dont care. If he's still in the sport at 20,and still improving then i might have an opinion.Teen phenoms come and go,and he's probably just one of a long line of them. I think zola budd was clean,and freakishly talented,so maybe he's a male version of her. Whenever i watch an an athletics/sports comp i never believe what im seeing anyway,so i change the channel. I know its a drug fest.
I think he's freakishly talented. Has to be to run so fast,so young. Some people are just gifted at certain things,and his gift is running. Whether it’s through drug use,or clean,to run sub 1.46 and 3.38 at 16 is extraordinary. You dont do that without a lot of natural talent. Now whether or not he can improve and go on to have a long career remains to be seen. He might end up injured,and out of the sport by his early 20s,or he might go on to win olympic gold.
He and Cooper are very physically developed at age 16 for the age. That doesn’t mean they are tapped out at all as some of the biggest improvements come from training and gains that built up over years (for many this is age 19-23, for these guys it’s likely ages 17-21). But it also means that Cooper running 1:37 because a physically undeveloped Bryce Hoppel was a 1:53 guy at age 16 or whatever is irrelevant. Ditto Ruthe and whatever Hockers PB was.
For Ruthe the next step will be to become competitive in big-boy races. Myers took steps towards it last year, but he scuffled at Worlds and on the circuit had some ups and downs. It looks like this year he’ll be there as he’s taken a leap. The crazy thing was Laros emerged in 2023 out of nowhere as a factor on the senior global stage, and last year he was dominant until the Worlds final. Jakob like Laros came of age in 2019 quite quickly before a slight disappointment at Worlds. Lutkenhaus I think is already capable, his Tokyo flameout notwithstanding. Ruthe has plenty of time, and I’d love to see him in the NCAA.
I saw Cooper up close in person at Nats last summer. He is certainly not “very physically developed” any more than most 16 year olds. He looked like a regular kid, not some early maturing hairy guys you see certain places. You could see he disn’t even shave. A lotmof people who makrs claims about some younstrrs being physically developed are simply jealous over their own lack of talent.
He and Cooper are very physically developed at age 16 for the age. That doesn’t mean they are tapped out at all as some of the biggest improvements come from training and gains that built up over years (for many this is age 19-23, for these guys it’s likely ages 17-21). But it also means that Cooper running 1:37 because a physically undeveloped Bryce Hoppel was a 1:53 guy at age 16 or whatever is irrelevant. Ditto Ruthe and whatever Hockers PB was.
For Ruthe the next step will be to become competitive in big-boy races. Myers took steps towards it last year, but he scuffled at Worlds and on the circuit had some ups and downs. It looks like this year he’ll be there as he’s taken a leap. The crazy thing was Laros emerged in 2023 out of nowhere as a factor on the senior global stage, and last year he was dominant until the Worlds final. Jakob like Laros came of age in 2019 quite quickly before a slight disappointment at Worlds. Lutkenhaus I think is already capable, his Tokyo flameout notwithstanding. Ruthe has plenty of time, and I’d love to see him in the NCAA.
I saw Cooper up close in person at Nats last summer. He is certainly not “very physically developed” any more than most 16 year olds. He looked like a regular kid, not some early maturing hairy guys you see certain places. You could see he disn’t even shave. A lotmof people who makrs claims about some younstrrs being physically developed are simply jealous over their own lack of talent.
The same guys keep saying that about Lutkenhaus and it isn’t true at all. He looks like an average teen in person - younger looking than many of the HS guys he was racing last season. Maybe those posters are jealous or maybe they are simply reaching for an explanation as to why this kid is so fast. He just is.
The same guys keep saying that about Lutkenhaus and it isn’t true at all. He looks like an average teen in person - younger looking than many of the HS guys he was racing last season. Maybe those posters are jealous or maybe they are simply reaching for an explanation as to why this kid is so fast. He just is.
I’ve interviewed the kid twice. I think you are misinterpreting what I’m saying. His face is completely boyish, he looks 17 and looked 16 last year. He’s just physically built (tall, muscular, powerful stride)and not someone who looks like HS Colin Sahlman for instance. But yes he looks like an average teen off the track, not like Alan Webb at age 18 let’s say.
I recently did an analysis of men's world record progressions, looking at how much world records progressed in 25-year intervals during the last 100 years. This is what I found for the 1500m:
1925-1950: 4.1%
1950-1975: 4.8%
1975-2000: 2.9%
2000-2025: 0.0%
For almost every event I looked at from 400m to the marathon, the period from 1950 to 1975 had the largest percentage improvement.
Jazy ran his mile world record in 1965. Is it plausible that a teenager could run about as fast as him 60 years later with all the advancements that have been made in the sport since then? One way to look at it is to consider what teenagers were running in 1965 and compare them to the world record 60 years before them.
The world record in 1905 was 4:15. Teenagers were running much faster than that 60 years later. I wonder what elders thought about that in the 1960s.
Yep. Jim Ryun ran 4:07.8 on 9 months training as a HS soph. He would have crushed the world-record holder from 40 years earlier, Paavo Nurmi. There are extreme outliers, it simply just happens, and now we have threshold training in the mix, which has definitely had major impact despite the denials from the usual suspects. Sure, record breaking slows down as times get faster, but that’s not linear either. In the early 70s there was a leveling off noted by some, auch as in the 800m where the record had been equaled twice, but had been sitting for 9 years, then all of a sudden it was beaten. Same in the 100 yards etc. The altitude aided sprint and jump marks from Mexico City ‘68 then added to the fun of course.
Read the book “The Sports Gene” by David Epstein - there’s a chapter on genetics and trainability, it’s fascinating and gives great insight into what aome outliers naturally possess over others. Ryun is just one of the notable outliers chronicled.
There have been continuous outliers since Ryun's era. All the world record-holders since have been, by definition, "outliers". But today we are seeing a spate of teenage prodigies. They aren't so much outliers as becoming a new norm. I wonder why?
So you're essentially saying his exceptional achievements come from unexceptional training. Also, while significant improvements can be expected after entry in the sport it is virtually unprecedented that a middle teenager can go from a beginner still in puberty to near equalling Jazy's former world record in just two years.
If this kind of improvement is seen as credible then nothing invites scepticism.
I recently did an analysis of men's world record progressions, looking at how much world records progressed in 25-year intervals during the last 100 years. This is what I found for the 1500m:
1925-1950: 4.1%
1950-1975: 4.8%
1975-2000: 2.9%
2000-2025: 0.0%
For almost every event I looked at from 400m to the marathon, the period from 1950 to 1975 had the largest percentage improvement.
Jazy ran his mile world record in 1965. Is it plausible that a teenager could run about as fast as him 60 years later with all the advancements that have been made in the sport since then? One way to look at it is to consider what teenagers were running in 1965 and compare them to the world record 60 years before them.
The world record in 1905 was 4:15. Teenagers were running much faster than that 60 years later. I wonder what elders thought about that in the 1960s.
What are the improvements since Jazy's era that would enable a 16 year old today to run as fast? How do you quantify those improvements?