Under no reasonable system of justice would someone like them get a lifetime ban.
Um what? You’re the one who has repeatedly said that drug cheats should get a lifetime ban
Where did yo get this idea? One of them paced Paula Radcliffe and they both are pro-Shelby. Those are two obvious dopers for whom the Brojos don’t support lifetime bans.
Um what? You’re the one who has repeatedly said that drug cheats should get a lifetime ban
Where did yo get this idea? One of them paced Paula Radcliffe and they both are pro-Shelby. Those are two obvious dopers for whom the Brojos don’t support lifetime bans.
But then Nicole had a total about face. I guess they made up and now she too will rave about them. It's her experience, not any of ours, I'd just be curious to see how she squares everything.
1) So Nicole now says nice things about them? I see the article where she talks about quitting the team, but if there is something with her being more complimentary I'd like to see it. And also I didn't see her allege abuse. She alleged things she didn't want to do so she quit.
Someone like her would be good to hear from.
2) Where are these reports with all the findings against the Krannicks? Justice systems should publish their findings no? Right now we're all commenting about theoreticals about 2 prominent coaches, one who is dead, being banned.
And no one is alleging sexual abuse correct?. I think in these cases the charges should be public.
3) Let's say they Krannicks still wanted to coach and the guy was still alive. Could they still coach their high school team? Sounds like the school district never banned them. Curious how that would work.
2) Where are these reports with all the findings against the Krannicks? Justice systems should publish their findings no? Right now we're all commenting about theoreticals about 2 prominent coaches, one who is dead, being banned.
And no one is alleging sexual abuse correct?. I think in these cases the charges should be public.
3) Let's say they Krannicks still wanted to coach and the guy was still alive. Could they still coach their high school team? Sounds like the school district never banned them. Curious how that would work.
2 - We can be reasonably certain that no one has alleged sexual abuse because USATF adjudicated it. If the allegations had included sexual abuse it would have gone to the US Center for SafeSport.
This isn’t a justice system. This is equivalent to an HR department or Title IX or heck even USADA doesn’t post full details on most of their cases.
3 - High schools are on a different planet than the Olympic movement. SafeSport does not impact them. They could still coach their high school team (though most districts would likely release a coach serving a ban for abuse).
Do the nuts and bolts of why they got banned matter? This isn’t a situation of USATF being overly picky, decades of abuse should get coaches banned, even if they didn’t abuse every athlete and some athletes weren’t complaining.
1) Yes, the nuts and bolts matter.
2)"Decades of abuse" is a loaded term. If someone commits 5 misdemeanors a year for 30 years, we don't lock them up for life in prison, we don't bar them from employment.
If this is simply a matter of coaching too hard, why wouldn't you simple a) demand they change b) suspend them? c) tell them never to override a doctor.
OF course some of the doctors are insane and don't understand elite sport.
As weldon said, a cousin in the family was on one of the top TX football teams in the country He thought his foot was broken and hew as out for the playoffs. The docs said, "that's actually an old fracture. YOu are good to go if you can handle the pain. He was thrilled to get a pain injection and play the final 2-3 games."
I'm not convinced they were great. But I'm also not convinced this was done properly. You teat Nick Saban differently than some random joe college coach. There seems to be zero acknowledgement they were a total dynasty.
This post was edited 19 hours after it was posted.
We don't know all of the allegations made to USATF, but here are some of the allegations that have been made publicly.
Linked is a 1994 article I uploaded to Dropbox that describes athletes being pressured to snort vitamin B12 gel before their state championships, athletes being pressured to take sublingual B12, athletes being pressured to stop taking antibiotics, athletes being pressured to run through injuries, and an athlete being pressured to stop using her asthma inhaler:
Here is the report from the district investigating their own behavior. A number of victims chose not to participate in this one.
This report includes the following allegations (not all of these are violations of the SafeSport Code): - an athlete was forced to run while injured - athletes were forced to overtrain - coaches administered Vitamin B12 powder causing an athlete to become ill - coaches regulated food intake before races - coaches yelled at athletes during and after races for poor performance - excessive training - training in dangerous conditions - exerting undue influence and control over athletes’ diet - administering vitamins without consent - use of homemade orthotics without consent - lack of communication with parents - isolation of athletes - poor management of athletes’ injuries - creating an environment of intimidation and negativity - Art raised his voice and/or used profanities towards an athlete at another school during a meet - mandatory Sunday practices - suspended an athlete from the team for a week because they requested time off between indoor nationals and the start of the outdoor season - asked runners to jump on a moving treadmill - weighing athletes before and after practice (in 2019!)
We don't know all of the allegations made to USATF, but here are some of the allegations that have been made publicly.
Linked is a 1994 article I uploaded to Dropbox that describes athletes being pressured to snort vitamin B12 gel before their state championships, athletes being pressured to take sublingual B12, athletes being pressured to stop taking antibiotics, athletes being pressured to run through injuries, and an athlete being pressured to stop using her asthma inhaler:
Part 1:
Part 2:
Here is the report from the district investigating their own behavior. A number of victims chose not to participate in this one.
This report includes the following allegations (not all of these are violations of the SafeSport Code): - an athlete was forced to run while injured - athletes were forced to overtrain - coaches administered Vitamin B12 powder causing an athlete to become ill - coaches regulated food intake before races - coaches yelled at athletes during and after races for poor performance - excessive training - training in dangerous conditions - exerting undue influence and control over athletes’ diet - administering vitamins without consent - use of homemade orthotics without consent - lack of communication with parents - isolation of athletes - poor management of athletes’ injuries - creating an environment of intimidation and negativity - Art raised his voice and/or used profanities towards an athlete at another school during a meet - mandatory Sunday practices - suspended an athlete from the team for a week because they requested time off between indoor nationals and the start of the outdoor season - asked runners to jump on a moving treadmill - weighing athletes before and after practice (in 2019!)
Good point. Salazar is banned by SafeSport for life but he's not banned from WA or WADA.
Salazar is not banned by USATF but they banned a dead guy and a retired old woman. Tell me they have something big on these people.
Neither USATF nor WADA nor WA could have banned Salazar for his doping violations or his sexual abuses. USADA tried to ban Salazar for life for the former, but lost the case in arbitration, where the ban was reduced to a meager 4 years. SafeSport banned Salazar for life for the sexual abuses (and was not allowed to publish the details either).
Neither the USATF nor the SafeSport bans are complete bans from employment, because of their limited jurisdiction.
And of course banning a dead coach is 100% pointless, and banning a retired old lady for life isn't much different from banning her for 4 years. That's just pretending to be tough on abuse, while using coaches like Drummond and Mitchell as national coaches not too long ago.
I read the book Amazing Racers , concerning FM. While extolling the virtues of the coach, the book reveals a long string of stress fractures, ridiculously long practices that included long speeches by the famed coach- parents would be sitting in the parking lot until dark- , and many girls with "body image issues" (less sexily known as eating disorders). The athletes who survived were praised. The others were conveniently not written about. Win at all costs .
I have assisted a woman in another sport make a complaint to SafeSport about a major figure in that sport. SafeSport never even responded.
SafeSport is entirely performative. "We're doing something about the abuse of athletes in sports." Well, what they are doing isn't having any actual effect. How many people do you think have seen the required SafeSport videos and thought, "I learned from that video that I can't abuse kids. That's good to know. I hadn't realized that before." These kinds of programs are never required to show that what they're doing actually changes behavior.
I agree. In theory Safe Sport is a good thing. In reality, not so much. I filed a complaint with Safe Sport over a former athlete and their new, well known coach, for harassment and slander. They cost me jobs and positions. I was ignored by safe sport, and the coach and athlete then filed a complaint against me for retaliation and harassment. I was the one investigated.
You also have to take into account that Saratoga Springs is a horse racing town. My guess is they traded notes with horse trainers and as a result treated the kids like horses.
I don't know much about these two coaches but did they produce anyone who became successful in college and beyond (?), and if the answer is no then my gut feeling is that their training was over the top and largely unnecessary.