Who does Jakob Ingebrigsten view as his rival? Hocker or Kerr?

Go Hocker wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

So another tedious display of moderator bias. To respond to your claims about Hocker's achievements is deemed a personal attack. It is nothing of the kind.

National championships do not have the same standing as global competition. If they did Hocker would have been capable of winning international races. He has only won one each year in the last two years.

I don't "expect" Olympic champions to break world records but many of the best have and do so. Hocker hasn't. Another gap in his resume.

I did not say clean runners will necessarily become the best, and the chances are now slim in a doped sport, but these who do become champions win consistently; that's what champions and not flash in the pans typically do.

Perhaps you crossed the line with whatever you said in your deleted post. You should actually be thankful the moderators let you get away with all you do. You've completely derailed this thread with your off-topic allegations of doping, as you've done to countless other threads.

Still no list from you of clean distance runners who have been consistent winners in the last 30 years.

You didn't answer my question about which races were more important to Hocker this year. Do you really think Hocker cared more about GST races than he did about the US national championships? Please answer the question.

"I don't "expect" Olympic champions to break world records but many of the best have and do so. Hocker hasn't. Another gap in his resume."

First, you're backtracking from the expectation you expressed before when you wrote, "We might expect an Olympic and world champion might also have a wr or two."

Second, it seems you're now attacking Hocker for not being one of the best in history. Is that really what your beef is all about? Okay, so Hocker hasn't done enough by age 24 to be considered one of the GOATs. That shouldn't be a diss, and it definitely doesn't mean he's a doper.

Third, you're overlooking the fact that Hocker ran under the 3,000m world indoor record when he ran 7:23 at Millrose this year. It just turned out that Grant Fisher ran a little faster. That means the only thing keeping Hocker from meeting your twisted and nonsensical expectation for proving he's clean is just Fisher beating him by less than a quarter of a second at a non-championship race in February. Ridiculous.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Go Hocker wrote:

Perhaps you crossed the line with whatever you said in your deleted post. You should actually be thankful the moderators let you get away with all you do. You've completely derailed this thread with your off-topic allegations of doping, as you've done to countless other threads.

Still no list from you of clean distance runners who have been consistent winners in the last 30 years.

You didn't answer my question about which races were more important to Hocker this year. Do you really think Hocker cared more about GST races than he did about the US national championships? Please answer the question.

"I don't "expect" Olympic champions to break world records but many of the best have and do so. Hocker hasn't. Another gap in his resume."

First, you're backtracking from the expectation you expressed before when you wrote, "We might expect an Olympic and world champion might also have a wr or two."

Second, it seems you're now attacking Hocker for not being one of the best in history. Is that really what your beef is all about? Okay, so Hocker hasn't done enough by age 24 to be considered one of the GOATs. That shouldn't be a diss, and it definitely doesn't mean he's a doper.

Third, you're overlooking the fact that Hocker ran under the 3,000m world indoor record when he ran 7:23 at Millrose this year. It just turned out that Grant Fisher ran a little faster. That means the only thing keeping Hocker from meeting your twisted and nonsensical expectation for proving he's clean is just Fisher beating him by less than a quarter of a second at a non-championship race in February. Ridiculous.

You're quibbling. I'm saying that Hocker not being able to win more than one international race year (but that when he does it is a global final) doesn't match the kind of achievements we would expect of global champions - doped or clean. If they were clean champions they were consistent winners at an international level - as champions typically are. He isn't a consistent winner. (And don't give me that bs that he only loses because he "doesn't care". This is his career.)

As for world records, I said we "might expect" global champions in their events to hold those records - that isn't a claim they must. But they often have done so. That he hasn't shows again the limitations on his achievements. Putting it simply, if it wasn't for a single race each year in the last couple of years no one would know of him outside narrow running circles in the US. He is a runner who on every other occasion got beaten at an international level.

Armstronglivs wrote:

You're quibbling. I'm saying that Hocker not being able to win more than one international race year (but that when he does it is a global final) doesn't match the kind of achievements we would expect of global champions - doped or clean. If they were clean champions they were consistent winners at an international level - as champions typically are. He isn't a consistent winner. (And don't give me that bs that he only loses because he "doesn't care". This is his career.)

As for world records, I said we "might expect" global champions in their events to hold those records - that isn't a claim they must. But they often have done so. That he hasn't shows again the limitations on his achievements. Putting it simply, if it wasn't for a single race each year in the last couple of years no one would know of him outside narrow running circles in the US. He is a runner who on every other occasion got beaten at an international level.

the armlegger wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

You're quibbling. I'm saying that Hocker not being able to win more than one international race year (but that when he does it is a global final) doesn't match the kind of achievements we would expect of global champions - doped or clean. If they were clean champions they were consistent winners at an international level - as champions typically are. He isn't a consistent winner. (And don't give me that bs that he only loses because he "doesn't care". This is his career.)

As for world records, I said we "might expect" global champions in their events to hold those records - that isn't a claim they must. But they often have done so. That he hasn't shows again the limitations on his achievements. Putting it simply, if it wasn't for a single race each year in the last couple of years no one would know of him outside narrow running circles in the US. He is a runner who on every other occasion got beaten at an international level.

Do the global champs of this century held the WR?

Schumann - no

Bucher- no

Said-Guerni - no

Borzakovsky - no

Ramzi - no

Yego - no

Bungei - no

Mulaudzi - no

Aman- no

Bosse - no

Brazier - no

Korir - no

Arop - no

Wanyonyi - no

Lagat - no

Kiprop - no

Kamel - no

Makhloufi- no

Centrowitz - no

Manangoi - no

Cheruiyot- no

Ingebrigtsen- no

Wightman- no

Kerr - no

Hocker - no

Nader - no

Wolde- no

Limo R. - no

Kipchoge - no

Limo B. - no

Farah - no

Edris - no

Kamathi - no

Jeilan - no

Barega - no

Gressier- no

Kosgei - no

Kipruto B. - no

Kemboi - no

Kipruto C. - no

El Bakkali - no

Beamish - no

So WE might expect?

Go Hocker wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

You're quibbling. I'm saying that Hocker not being able to win more than one international race year (but that when he does it is a global final) doesn't match the kind of achievements we would expect of global champions - doped or clean. If they were clean champions they were consistent winners at an international level - as champions typically are. He isn't a consistent winner. (And don't give me that bs that he only loses because he "doesn't care". This is his career.)

As for world records, I said we "might expect" global champions in their events to hold those records - that isn't a claim they must. But they often have done so. That he hasn't shows again the limitations on his achievements. Putting it simply, if it wasn't for a single race each year in the last couple of years no one would know of him outside narrow running circles in the US. He is a runner who on every other occasion got beaten at an international level.

Pointing out the numerous holes in your argument isn't quibbling.

You are being evasive, so I will put forth a list of questions I am asking you to answer clearly.

1. Can you provide a list of clean distance runners who have been consistent winners in the last 30 years?

2. Which races were more important to Hocker this year: GST races or the US national championships?

3. If Hocker had run a quarter of a second faster in the 3000 at the Millrose Games in February and a tenth of a second faster in the 1500 at GST Philadelphia in June, would you be satisfied?

Three very simple questions you should be able to answer.

Armstronglivs wrote:

the armlegger wrote:

Do the global champs of this century held the WR?

Schumann - no

Bucher- no

Said-Guerni - no

Borzakovsky - no

Ramzi - no

Yego - no

Bungei - no

Mulaudzi - no

Aman- no

Bosse - no

Brazier - no

Korir - no

Arop - no

Wanyonyi - no

Lagat - no

Kiprop - no

Kamel - no

Makhloufi- no

Centrowitz - no

Manangoi - no

Cheruiyot- no

Ingebrigtsen- no

Wightman- no

Kerr - no

Hocker - no

Nader - no

Wolde- no

Limo R. - no

Kipchoge - no

Limo B. - no

Farah - no

Edris - no

Kamathi - no

Jeilan - no

Barega - no

Gressier- no

Kosgei - no

Kipruto B. - no

Kemboi - no

Kipruto C. - no

El Bakkali - no

Beamish - no

So WE might expect?

Elliott, Snell, Keino, Walker, Coe, Cram, Morceli, El G, Ingebrigtsen - the md runners that dominated their respective eras - have all been global champions and world record holders. So you've just confirmed Hocker isn't in their class and likely never will be. But he is good for one race a year.

Armstronglivs wrote:

the armlegger wrote:

You said "we" might expect global champions to held the WR in their event. Only YOU might expect it - because almost all don't.

3 out of 9 from your list didn't had the WR, as you said you expect. Only 33.3% wrong - must be some record for you.

Global champs almost every year - yet you had to go back decades.

Ingebrigtsen dominated his era - says the hater himself.

All of those I listed held a wr and sometimes several. I didn't say it had to be the 1500wr. Hocker has no records. Of course you and those like you don't "expect" these things because you try to make excuses for Hocker not winning at an international level other than one race a year.

Ingebrigtsen holds wrs as well as championship titles. Hocker doesn't. Ingebrigtsen also has way more wins at an international level than Hocker. But that wouldn't be hard. Most top runners win more than one international race a year. As you show, even frauds have their fans.