Again -- did your parents ever leave you alone at a public place in a strange town where you knew no one, for 16 hours?
Do you think your stories of personal self-confidence would be enough to persuade a judge that your parents were acting responsibly, within the law?
You're imposing your own values onto the situation. You don't really know if the kid was scared or upset about being alone in the VIP tent in an unfamiliar town. You are making assumptions about his feelings and how he experiences his location and surroundings.
Maybe he had gone to other triathlons and he knew the routine and it was familiar to him. Maybe he wasn't stressed at all about being there and he was excited to see his father compete. Maybe he begged his father to go even knowing he would be there alone all day. You just don’t know.
Not quite. I'm not thinking at all about the brave kids and how they felt or didn't feel, but rather the responsibility of the parents.
But I want to hear some real stories, rather than hypothetical bravado for the next "Home Alone" sequel.
Which of you self-confident free-range adults were left alone for 16 hours in another town, as a 9-year old, where you knew no one?
Which of you responsible parents have left your 9-year old child alone for 16 hours, in another town, where they knew no one?
Do you have any real stories that meet or exceed this?
Maybe not that specifically "16 hours in public place in a strange town where you knew no one", but age 9 for me was 47 years ago and my memories are not specific, more of the usual routine. We didn't go out of town much. Adding descriptors like "public place" and "strange town" don't make things scarier. We played almost entirely in public places. Other towns are not strange, they are other towns. I was not at all spatially challenged because exploring what we did on our own all the time. A different town is not more unsafe than my own neighborhood.
Like malmo's experience, my personal self-confidence was the normal confidence for all kids my age at that time in my area. And like malmo, we didn't call it free-range back then. I use that because it's the current term and a good description. It was absolutely normal, responsible behavior by parents to have kids unsupervised outside all day, and certainly within the law back then.
There was a shift to thinking kids being outside alone is unsafe around 8 years after me in my family with my younger sister. At last that was when I noticed it. I thought it was just because she was a girl, but apparently it was a societal shift. If you grew up before that, you think about unsupervised kids as normal like me and malmo and other probably Gen X and older posters. If you grew up after that, unsupervised kids is somehow a crime.
It's not like crime suddenly increased. Crime has generally edged downwards since I was growing up. I think it was the increase in media coverage of crime to sell news that make the world seem scarier than it really is.
You say "we" a lot, but the kid was alone. He wasn't playing with his friends in public places, or cycling around his home town with his friends until 10pm.
Tell me a personal anecdote that compares to leaving a 9-year old child alone, not knowing anyone, for 16 hours -- that happened to you, as a kid, or that you did, as a parent to your kid.
You're imposing your own values onto the situation. You don't really know if the kid was scared or upset about being alone in the VIP tent in an unfamiliar town. You are making assumptions about his feelings and how he experiences his location and surroundings.
Maybe he had gone to other triathlons and he knew the routine and it was familiar to him. Maybe he wasn't stressed at all about being there and he was excited to see his father compete. Maybe he begged his father to go even knowing he would be there alone all day. You just don’t know.
Not quite. I'm not thinking at all about the brave kids and how they felt or didn't feel, but rather the responsibility of the parents.
But I want to hear some real stories, rather than hypothetical bravado for the next "Home Alone" sequel.
Which of you self-confident free-range adults were left alone for 16 hours in another town, as a 9-year old, where you knew no one?
Which of you responsible parents have left your 9-year old child alone for 16 hours, in another town, where they knew no one?
Do you have any real stories that meet or exceed this?
I know children this age and even younger who have flown internationally alone on flights that have lasted this long when airport time is included. Yes, there are adults designated to help them through security and keep an eye on them but it's not someone they knew. They are sitting on the plane and waiting at the gate with strangers. Most airlines have policies that allow children as young as 5 to fly with an airline escort.
When my son was 10 he went to Japan for three weeks on his own. There were classmates and teacher chaperones on the plane but when he arrived he stayed alone with a family he had never met in a country where English is not widely spoken and eating unfamiliar food.
When I was 7 I remember I had to take a public bus to the other side of the city alone. The trip was probably only around 4-5 hours total, but unlike the kid in our story who only waited in one place I had to transfer buses in the middle of the trip on my own where a lot more things can go wrong.
There are a lot of things parents can do to help kids handle being in unfamiliar surroundings.
stop comparing apples to oranges people...the poster is correct! these anecdotes of children doing this and that are not close to be the same as a 9 year old in a strange city being left alone for 16 hours. Stop trying to cover your own inadaquacies by slamming the poster. I agree that this was very close to if not over the line regarding child abuse and that most judges would agree. My 10 year old gr dtr traveled without anyone in her family for 2 weeks: oh, wait a minute, there were 20 other kids and 15 adults travelling with her.
stop comparing apples to oranges people...the poster is correct! these anecdotes of children doing this and that are not close to be the same as a 9 year old in a strange city being left alone for 16 hours.
How do you know that Lake Placid was a strange place for the kid?
My 10 year old gr dtr traveled without anyone in her family for 2 weeks: oh, wait a minute, there were 20 other kids and 15 adults travelling with her.
There were probably at least 15 adults in that VIP tent at various times.
Are you suggesting that the missing ingredient was 20 other kids?
No one cares about all of you free-range latch-key kids (and I am myself a fan of allowing children the freedom to roam, learn, and be responsible). The issue is that leaving the child in the VIP tent placed the responsibility for a minor on adults who were not authorized to care for him in the unlikely event of an emergency. This isn’t a story about children being independent; it’s about who assumes liability for a child. And as far as rules go, Ironman clearly states that a child in the VIP area must be accompanied by an adult at all times.
No one cares about all of you free-range latch-key kids (and I am myself a fan of allowing children the freedom to roam, learn, and be responsible). The issue is that leaving the child in the VIP tent placed the responsibility for a minor on adults who were not authorized to care for him in the unlikely event of an emergency. This isn’t a story about children being independent; it’s about who assumes liability for a child. And as far as rules go, Ironman clearly states that a child in the VIP area must be accompanied by an adult at all times.
Leaving the kid alone in the VIP tent is safer than letting him eat Cheez-its.
No one cares about all of you free-range latch-key kids (and I am myself a fan of allowing children the freedom to roam, learn, and be responsible). The issue is that leaving the child in the VIP tent placed the responsibility for a minor on adults who were not authorized to care for him in the unlikely event of an emergency. This isn’t a story about children being independent; it’s about who assumes liability for a child. And as far as rules go, Ironman clearly states that a child in the VIP area must be accompanied by an adult at all times.
Fair enough. If those are the rules then pull him off the course to collect his child. But does breaking an Ironman rule constitute child neglect and calling for his arrest?
No one cares about all of you free-range latch-key kids (and I am myself a fan of allowing children the freedom to roam, learn, and be responsible). The issue is that leaving the child in the VIP tent placed the responsibility for a minor on adults who were not authorized to care for him in the unlikely event of an emergency. This isn’t a story about children being independent; it’s about who assumes liability for a child. And as far as rules go, Ironman clearly states that a child in the VIP area must be accompanied by an adult at all times.
Fair enough. If those are the rules then pull him off the course to collect his child. But does breaking an Ironman rule constitute child neglect and calling for his arrest?
Because it is child neglect or maybe even abuse? State laws often declare sports officials to report potential abuse or negligence to the police. The RD did the right thing and what might be required by law.
Years before age nine, I was allowed to wander all day everyday wherever I wanted in summer and after school or on the weekends until nightfall or a bit past if dinner was later, so I find it completely unexceptionable that this kid was in an active triathlete tent with activities the whole day while his dad did his tri, obviously because he had no one else to watch his child during the race. When my wife was far away, I once had to travel to another city and take my young child to a tri relay where i did the run. I got one of the tri team members on the beach to watch her during my 5k, so I can understand where this was coming from.
Just the same, I'm genuinely surprised at just how many here are defending the father for leaving his 9-year old son unsupervised in a tent full of strangers, at a race full of strangers, for an expected 16 hours -- and that was his Plan A.
I'm in complete agreement with "I'm not your babysitter" (and "Girl Eating Cheez Its"): "I'm all for kids being allowed to hang out around the neighborhood unsupervised, but that isn't really the issue here in my mind. This dude essentially foisted the care of his kid onto other people without their knowledge or consent."
It's not about how independent the kid is, or how scared he isn't, but about whether parents should be leaving their 9-year old kid to fend for themselves for 16 hours.
Maybe another way to look at this, is if we assume this sort of thing were normal, how well does it scale if everyone does it? There were 2240 participants in the Lake Placid Ironman. How many unsupervised kids should organizers expect at most can be left in VIP tents? Or wandering around at the start/finish line waiting for their daddy or mommy to finish?
I know children this age and even younger who have flown internationally alone on flights that have lasted this long when airport time is included. Yes, there are adults designated to help them through security and keep an eye on them but it's not someone they knew. They are sitting on the plane and waiting at the gate with strangers. Most airlines have policies that allow children as young as 5 to fly with an airline escort.
When my son was 10 he went to Japan for three weeks on his own. There were classmates and teacher chaperones on the plane but when he arrived he stayed alone with a family he had never met in a country where English is not widely spoken and eating unfamiliar food.
When I was 7 I remember I had to take a public bus to the other side of the city alone. The trip was probably only around 4-5 hours total, but unlike the kid in our story who only waited in one place I had to transfer buses in the middle of the trip on my own where a lot more things can go wrong.
There are a lot of things parents can do to help kids handle being in unfamiliar surroundings.
That's not quite comparable.
Putting kids on international flights alone requires end to end coordination, and signing papers, and the airlines accepting some supervisory responsibility for getting the kid from gate to gate.
Similar thing with school trips. Surely papers were signed with some adult supervisor agreeing to be responsible.
Apparently there was no agreement between the father and any other adults.
As for your city bus ride, what if something had gone wrong?