Rita Gary (Furman Coach) tweets about foreign athletes

settledown wrote:

The "myth" of all these lost opportunities is just comical. There are still plenty of opportunities for american kids. The catch is that they are going to have to readjust their expectations of what level they are. Most of the kids that are losing opportunities were probably not really D1. D2, D3, NAIA, and JUCO are going to have plenty of roster spots. Most kids are not D1 and never were.

On another note it is worth pointing out the insane expectations of the people on this board. You guys want results but then you flip an want to only allow certain groups of people to compete. You cannot have both. If having Americans is the goal then winning should be secondary. If winning is the goal then coaches should be able to get whoever they want. At the D1 level, winning matters. Coaches job security depends on it. They should be able to get anyone that can help them achieve that goal.

10000th time wrote:

settledown wrote:

The "myth" of all these lost opportunities is just comical. There are still plenty of opportunities for american kids. The catch is that they are going to have to readjust their expectations of what level they are. Most of the kids that are losing opportunities were probably not really D1. D2, D3, NAIA, and JUCO are going to have plenty of roster spots. Most kids are not D1 and never were.

On another note it is worth pointing out the insane expectations of the people on this board. You guys want results but then you flip an want to only allow certain groups of people to compete. You cannot have both. If having Americans is the goal then winning should be secondary. If winning is the goal then coaches should be able to get whoever they want. At the D1 level, winning matters. Coaches job security depends on it. They should be able to get anyone that can help them achieve that goal.

This guy is 100% out of touch with the current NCAA. D2 and JUCO also have extremely high levels of international students. And D1 roster spots are being cut in half. Many programs have already announced they are cutting throwers and jumpers (Washington State and Colorado, for example) and this is just the beginning.

And it's just not realistic for a kid from West Virginia to attend a D3 school in California just for an opportunity to join a team. Students have limits in terms of what they can afford, how far away from home they want to be, what their major is, etc. Remember - WVU doesn't even have a men's team.

The NCAA would be just as exciting WITHOUT international athletes. There would still be close races and the team championship will still always come down to the 4x4 in track. High school XC and track is MASSIVELY popular with just American students.

If anything, the NCAA would be more interesting because there are more compelling story lines - like two brothers racing against each other on separate teams. Or a walk-on athlete that becomes NCAA champion. Or the athlete that is #1 in the nation while currently in Medical School to become a neurosurgeon. Things that fans can relate to.

whatcanbedone wrote:

10000th time wrote:

This guy is 100% out of touch with the current NCAA. D2 and JUCO also have extremely high levels of international students. And D1 roster spots are being cut in half. Many programs have already announced they are cutting throwers and jumpers (Washington State and Colorado, for example) and this is just the beginning.

And it's just not realistic for a kid from West Virginia to attend a D3 school in California just for an opportunity to join a team. Students have limits in terms of what they can afford, how far away from home they want to be, what their major is, etc. Remember - WVU doesn't even have a men's team.

The NCAA would be just as exciting WITHOUT international athletes. There would still be close races and the team championship will still always come down to the 4x4 in track. High school XC and track is MASSIVELY popular with just American students.

If anything, the NCAA would be more interesting because there are more compelling story lines - like two brothers racing against each other on separate teams. Or a walk-on athlete that becomes NCAA champion. Or the athlete that is #1 in the nation while currently in Medical School to become a neurosurgeon. Things that fans can relate to.

Yep to everything you said. Plus I guarantee this guy will keep trying gaslight American kids and parents once the same thing inevitably happens to D2, NAIA, and JUCO.

"You guys need to readjust your expectations, why don't you just join the local run club if your JUCO won't take you (to a 4:10 mile state champion or their parents)"

"JUCOs are great opportunities for internationals, why should an American get to go his local community college if a Kenyan is faster"

Can already hear them now. It never ends. I would respect them a lot more if they just flat out admitted they hate their own country and got it over with.

settledown wrote:

whatcanbedone wrote:

Yep to everything you said. Plus I guarantee this guy will keep trying gaslight American kids and parents once the same thing inevitably happens to D2, NAIA, and JUCO.

"You guys need to readjust your expectations, why don't you just join the local run club if your JUCO won't take you (to a 4:10 mile state champion or their parents)"

"JUCOs are great opportunities for internationals, why should an American get to go his local community college if a Kenyan is faster"

Can already hear them now. It never ends. I would respect them a lot more if they just flat out admitted they hate their own country and got it over with.

It is not gaslighting, it is the reality of our situation. This is the direct result of paying college athletes like pros. I do not think that teams should be all international but the truth is that in order to "win now" this is what coaches have to do. The issues that are happening are not ever going to be issue at D2, D3, and NAIA. The vast majority of those schools are private and most are using athletics as enrollement drivers. They will add roster spots not get rid of them. The truth is that the kids that are getting cut are not D1 and never were. Being a state champion should absolutey not get you a spot on the in state school. You guys have obviously never coached. You try telling any coach anywhere that he cannot go and get the best kid possible that will help his team. Everybody wanted to pay players, the NCAA is evil, blah blah blah. This is the result. I do not likethe fact that coaches do not have to develop kids to win but it is what it is. Bottom line is that US schools are merit based in academics and athletics. The kids need to earn their spot. FYI D3 is overrated and a bad deal for most but it is an opportunity. Club is a waste of time and not an intercollegiate sport. It is "club" They might as well join the SGA. D2 and NAIA can provide good financial and coaching situations and honestly are getting ready to get a lot of trickle down talent. Mid-Majors are going to have to decide between funding football and basketball and funding the rest of the athletic department. Get ready for a lot of programs to get cut. College sport are hard. Stop crying and earn the spot you want. Your opinion is not going to matter cause this is the reality of college sports. Adapt or die.

congress take action wrote:

settledown wrote:

It is not gaslighting, it is the reality of our situation. This is the direct result of paying college athletes like pros. I do not think that teams should be all international but the truth is that in order to "win now" this is what coaches have to do. The issues that are happening are not ever going to be issue at D2, D3, and NAIA. The vast majority of those schools are private and most are using athletics as enrollement drivers. They will add roster spots not get rid of them. The truth is that the kids that are getting cut are not D1 and never were. Being a state champion should absolutey not get you a spot on the in state school. You guys have obviously never coached. You try telling any coach anywhere that he cannot go and get the best kid possible that will help his team. Everybody wanted to pay players, the NCAA is evil, blah blah blah. This is the result. I do not likethe fact that coaches do not have to develop kids to win but it is what it is. Bottom line is that US schools are merit based in academics and athletics. The kids need to earn their spot. FYI D3 is overrated and a bad deal for most but it is an opportunity. Club is a waste of time and not an intercollegiate sport. It is "club" They might as well join the SGA. D2 and NAIA can provide good financial and coaching situations and honestly are getting ready to get a lot of trickle down talent. Mid-Majors are going to have to decide between funding football and basketball and funding the rest of the athletic department. Get ready for a lot of programs to get cut. College sport are hard. Stop crying and earn the spot you want. Your opinion is not going to matter cause this is the reality of college sports. Adapt or die.

America is 340 million people compared to the world population of 8 BILLION. So not only do American 17 year olds have to compete for roster spots against 17 year olds from every country in the world, they also have to compete against every 18-27 year old in the world for roster spots.

You are saying a 17 year old that run 4:04 for the mile hasn't earned the roster spot while the 25 year old freshman from Australia who runs 3:57 deserves it more? The Australian guy was probably running 4:16 at 17 years of age.

settledown wrote:

congress take action wrote:

America is 340 million people compared to the world population of 8 BILLION. So not only do American 17 year olds have to compete for roster spots against 17 year olds from every country in the world, they also have to compete against every 18-27 year old in the world for roster spots.

You are saying a 17 year old that run 4:04 for the mile hasn't earned the roster spot while the 25 year old freshman from Australia who runs 3:57 deserves it more? The Australian guy was probably running 4:16 at 17 years of age.

No. I am saying that the coach of that program is the one that gets to decide if he wants the 17 year old 4:04 kid or the 25 year old 3:57 kid. Taxpayers should not get to set the recruiting strategy of coaches.

You are absolutley correct in saying that the high schools kids are competing against the world. That is more true now than ever and it does suck for this generation of homegrown talent. I wish that this was not the direction of college athletics. I also wish i was a multi-millionaire but no amount of wishing is going to change those two things. The original point is that these kids still have opportunities and pathways to D1. They are just not going to look like the model we are used to. Good coaches that can develop athletes will be punished for it in this new reality. Every time you coach a kid up and help them succeed they are going to jump ship to the best opportunity for them. So dont go feeling bad for all these lost roster spots when those same kids will drop those programs that take a chance on them the second they can get paid somewhere else.

Gentleman Savage wrote:

This has essentially ALWAYS been the case. Coming out of high school in the late 80s, it was known among my peers that the closest local Public Jock U would not recruit or offer any scholarship to anyone who didn't show the ability to score points at NCAA outdoors. For other nearby programs, it was reserved for those with marks that would score at P4 conferences. That's a high bar, and while this program has produced some world class performers it has never won a track title and isn't in the top 16 for individual titles. The notable distance stars to go there and other P4 programs in the state were primarily foreign athletes. Any media guide we got from those programs throughout the region usually featured a foreign runner as their top distance man. It wasn't discouraging, maybe a bit puzzling, it just informed us to go where we fit in. If I remember right from Bowerman and the Men of Oregon, under Bowerman there were several foreigners among their top distance men. John McDonnell always had foreign distance guys at Arkansas, and not just Irishmen. Now it's an issue only because people can anonymously go after coaches publicly whose personality they don't like or something. Of course, per the OP, coaches now have a way to publicly go after each other for any little thing to get an edge in recruiting or to soothe the ego bruises. I'm so glad my coaches didn't have twitter or whatever to take to to vent their petty grievances, though I don't consider any of my coaches the type to fall into that pit.