the criticism of John Walker, lydiard interpretation,
is that the basic speed component was neglected.
there was room for some explosive hurdle and depth jump, and probably one sprint session per week.
in a way lydiard had the explosive work covered with hill bounding, but i guess it got lost along the way, maybe guys were getting injured, but they shoud not unless they were doing too much mileage..
anyway, Walkers training was to make a 349 miler, and it worked, hit the nail on the head.
Why go to Mexico? You can get a prescription of testosterone cypionate blended with nandrolone from physician in U.S. filled by compounding pharmacy in U.S. EPO is different story...
I haven’t ever looked into getting or how to get just fully legal steroids in the US, but I think the answer is the legally immortalized paper trail.
You can get lots of substances in Telegram too if you have the right connection. Telegram notifies you if one of your contacts joins Telegram. From what I understand Telegram is an app for peedos, people looking for rec drugs, and people looking for PEDs. I always enjoy getting the notification that one of my contacts have joined Telegram. “BYU Track and Field has joined Telegram! Say hi!”
I really wonder who that is, Tiktok is always trying to get me to add BYU T&Fs official account from my contacts too. I didn’t run at BYU and I wasn’t recruited at BYU. If you know the answer to this you’ll find a dirty coach or maybe just a dirty human being I reckon.
What are you talking about? I’m in 2 Telegram groups: one for retired members of a specific military group, and one for specific medical studies released on liver cancer. Joining Telegram has nothing to do with what you’re referencing.
I would greatly disagree regarding exogenous (synthetic) hgh being indistinguishable. It’s just that it has an extremely short detection window (4-6 hours in some studies). Now, your suggestion about mitochondrial manipulation might really have some merit. If your body has more “powerhouses” then more energy is produced- more mitochondria would then be able to utilize analogously more oxygen, effectively increasing tissue oxygenation. The more o’s, the longer it takes for lactic acidosis. Really good thought, man.
This would be detected with LT testing and/or VO2max testing being off-the-charts?
Yes, I think the efficacy of this type of drug would be most evident in those two variables/tests.
this idea isnt quit a novelty, gut and organism bacteria affect steroid production and deteroriation. including testosterone, estrogen, and in fact are an important component of normal health.
there are 1000 ways to manipulate, probably infinite.
so cutting edge sports medicine always risks being in the grey zone, depending on the whim or fairness of a WADA.
basically, PEDs are here to stay, might as well legalize it, and perhaps put limits on the blood passport, for certain markers, hormonal, red blood cell count, etc.
Had no idea about micro-doping by changing your bacteria biome, that’s incredibly interesting.
It is an evolved form of EPO. Remember EPO is synthetic, and by adding polymers and chains you can modify it. The most famous case we know about is Ramzi. Since then it has been improved about 4 times, again in 2012, 2016 and sometime during covid lockdowns, and finally again this year. Basically every Olympic cycle there is a new and better version of what we know as regular EPO. All versions will have different names, so I'm curious to see what we will be calling all the drugs in the future
Are you talking about CERA - a 3rd gen ESA? Ramzi was popped for CERA reference an IC test when he won gold at Beijing.
Back then dopers thought CERA was undetectable (it was until the manufacturer Roche labs assisted WADA in developing a test. Lol).
Dopers also liked CERA because it only required 1 or 2 injections per month to reach target hematocrit levels as opposed to 3 or more injections per week for 1st gen EPO.
Are you saying there's a 4th generation EPO out there or that CERA has just been modified?
I know what the Moroccan boys do up in ifrane, Vadadustat plus Tesamorelin and they get their blood values pretty thick.
then to not get busted take…..
(Vadaustat got a half life of 4 hours)
but I’m not going to give every secret away all I know is el g boys want gold and they’re in sub 3:30 sub 8:00 sub 12:40 shape and will pop out of nowhere in the Olympics
Pathetic that you "don't even blame them" for cheating.
If you don’t understand you don’t understand and that’s fine.
These are athletes that are told and tell themselves that they must be the best their entire lives. You ask them who they are and they say “I am a runner”. And then it starts effecting their scholarship money and even their income if they can no longer compete at the level that they are expected to compete at. It affects their sense of self worth. And then they learn the people that are beating them are cheating, and that they are going to get away with cheating, and because those cheaters are beating them, they will miss out on the things that pay for their school or pay for their rent.
A dishonest system beckons dishonest athletes. Your heros in this sport and other sports are using PEDs. There aren’t doping eras, there are dopers getting caught eras. If you want to believe in Santa you are more than welcome, life was a bit more rose colored when I believed in him.
I was about a third of a second away from being a D1 All American in the 800, was teammates with a multiple time NCAA 800 champ, and was also teammates with multiple multi-time All Americans in the 800. I definitely never cheated, and as sure as I can be about other people not doping the other guys were not doping, either. So spare me the "telling me how it is" or "that's how the real world works" B.S. It's all an excuse, and the worst thing is that the more people think that "everyone else is doing it," the more they are tempted to dope. That's not how it is for everyone, and it is pathetic that you "can understand it" unless you understand it in the same way you understand someone robbing a bank instead of busting their butt at work everyday.
Agree 100%. I was a fairly decent runner back in the day. I would never consider cheating. These people choose to do the wrong thing - for themselves for their long term wellbeing and their sport. Leave the excuses at the door.
Allegedly the new PED is something targeting the mitochondria
Biggest question is testicular shrinkage for men -- WADA and USADA test for "keep the balls on" drugs. Is there a new sperm pump drug, or should drug testers be measuring testicle circumference?
I have seen the microdosing testosterone comment on this forum more times than I can count. It doesn't work that way. If you repeatedly microdose exogenous test, it will shut down your HPTA natural production of T, which is counterproductive to training of distance running (for males). The whole point of T as PED is steady state levels to recover overnight (versus natural diurnal trough at night when T dips down).
The only exception to the HPTA rule is nasal T like Natesto, but that only provides marginal training/recovery benefits and is easily detectable.
Taking nasal T or a fast-acting, ester-less T injection the day of race is also counterproductive for distance runners because it spikes your blood pressure. It's a very uncomfortable feeling that diminishes your cardio capacity. Good for short bursts, not not 800 meters on up.
There are PEDs involved for sure in distance running, but it ain't microdosing T.
There's been several Kenyan male distance runners over the past couple of years that have tested positive for testosterone.
What about nandrolonoe? The vast majority of Kenyan doping positives are for nandrolonoe (check this out - the Kenyans are addicted to nandrolonoe. 😲):
Back in the 1980s when I was a young bodybuilder & powerlifter, nandrolonoe (Deca- Durabolin) & D-bol were most popular stacks. It put tremendous size & strength on just about anyone who was willing to train like a madman & eat a ton of protein.
I'm assuming that distance runners are using microdosing or low doses of nandrolonoe so as to not put on excess weight & size?
i'm unsure as to what others are describing by microdose, but i am referring to utilizing an appropriate bit of test at a time to keep the levels into an area where the overall levels of testosterone to estrogen would not flag (not supranormal levels), as well as ther amount of synthetic test not setting off the alarms. meaning, not doing one big whopper of a 75microg injection each week. rather, a smaller dose 2-3 times/wk depending on training load. that could be done through injection or topical. in addition, a supplement to enhance the effects of test while not actually increasing the test would also be beneficial. i believe that's where something like nandrolone would come into play with only an elimination half life of around 4-5 hours.
i'm still convinced that the SARMS and peptides are what the new driving force is (used in addition to the usual suspects of somatotropin and rbc stimulation). peptides are one thing, but SARMS is a whole new level of side effects that you're bringing to the table.
That's a good point about the SARM.
I used to also think that microdosing T to stay within physiological levels would enable one to evade positive test. Most men can inject 7-10mg of a medium-term ester T like enanthate or cypionate and stay in upper physiological range of normal levels (e.g., 700 ng/dl versus top end of 900 ng/dl) with spiking T/E ratio
But the Carbon Isotope Ratio test changed all that. Good article on on Velo:
"Danielson was busted by CIR, short for Carbon Isotope Ratio, a highly accurate test that is able to distinguish between naturally produced testosterone and its synthetic cousin using molecular weight. It is the first test able to detect the synthetic testosterone itself, rather than the body’s reaction to it.
The traditional method of detecting abuse of testosterone looks for an imbalance in the ratio of testosterone and epitestosterone. It is referred to as the T/E ratio test. A normal ratio for most humans is near 1:1. The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) considers a ratio over 4:1 to be a positive test. This has dropped in recent years — it was 8:1, then 6:1, and now 4:1. Floyd Landis had a ratio of 11:1 when he was nabbed by both the T/E ratio test and CIR in 2006 with a sample taken during the Tour de France.
If administered at the right time, the T/E ratio method can be very effective. But testosterone/epitestosterone ratios return to normal quickly, even overnight if taken in the right doses. With the ban on overnight testing, which was only recently partially lifted, the test’s real-world efficacy drops considerably.
The T/E test simply looks for a physiological response to doping, rather than the product itself. That is its flaw.
CIR is effective but expensive — $400-700 per sample, nearly 10 times the cost of the T/E ratio test. Like the T/E test, CIR is also based on a ratio. Labs determine the quantities of carbon-12 and carbon-13, two isotopes, or types, of carbon, within an individual’s testosterone molecules. Synthetic testosterone has less carbon-13 than naturally occurring testosterone."
And the CIR test also got Justin Gatlin. He must have been shocked out of his mind when he got the notice from WADA. Lol
The urine sample analysis that found reigning Olympic 100-meter champion Justin Gatlin positive for the steroid testosterone did not follow the traditional path but went directly to the more sophis…
It’s not how they race. It’s how they act after the race is finished.
Seemingly no pain, no distress, no discomfort.
Whatever some of these athletes are taking, it is completely removing lactic and the pain cave. So races are now just a test of biomechanics.
Exactly. Athletes not bent over trying to catch their breath immediately after the finish, especially after very anaerobic events like the 400 and 800. I would like to see videos of top runners from decades ago and compare. It’s true they weren’t as well trained, but a flat out effort is a flat out effort regardless of the time.
It’s not how they race. It’s how they act after the race is finished.
Seemingly no pain, no distress, no discomfort.
Whatever some of these athletes are taking, it is completely removing lactic and the pain cave. So races are now just a test of biomechanics.
Exactly. Athletes not bent over trying to catch their breath immediately after the finish, especially after very anaerobic events like the 400 and 800. I would like to see videos of top runners from decades ago and compare. It’s true they weren’t as well trained, but a flat out effort is a flat out effort regardless of the time.
Isocapnia. It's been around forever. It's a wonderful performance enhancer It's s free and completely legal.
I don't fully agree with this. Physiology doesn't change over decades, so the science of training for the most part was set in the late 50's and 60's and yes, the knowledge moves forward as science progresses, but the overarching things in training that improve performance are long known.
Shoes change also. Each time a shoe company redesigns a shoe, they have something new. Technology advances.
But doping is very real. The biggest jumps in performance, when they are sudden and jarring and as some posters have said, "disposition of the athlete after the race" are the big indicators of doping.
If WADA/AIU/ITA/National anti-doping agencies cannot get everyone, some big name needs to go down to put some fear into the practise of doping.
But don't you claim to be a Lydiard advocate?
Lydiard attended some of the best lectures and retained and utilised some of the best information. Basic stuff that you never learned and refuse to learn.
There's been several Kenyan male distance runners over the past couple of years that have tested positive for testosterone.
I'm assuming that distance runners are using microdosing or low doses of nandrolonoe so as to not put on excess weight & size?
Of course - see the Kenyans, or recall Baumann and Decker and Houlihan. Even Canova admitted that steroids help in distance running, e.g. his Mosop would have run 2:01 with steroids, he said.
Add some 20 IU/kg EPO (or more if you can hide from the testers a couple more times this season), and there's no need for a new drug. Ask testo user Salazar, who had both his star distance runners on the (rather small!) likely doping list in 2016.
Where are people buying these PEDs? Sketchy sites in Europe or Asia?
easily obtained in mexico (good luck getting it across the border), easily ordered from china (comes with a paper trail). the concentrations and efficacy of the pharmaceuticals from these two countries seem to vary significantly, however. because of this, people being testes tend to shy away from these sources.
Walking across the border is very simple, and unless the quantity is huge, it will just be confiscated if found. Ordering from China or India is also very easy and would be done through a cutout. I've known people who made large amounts of money doing both of these things. They preferred selling PEDS because the penalties for possession were minor to non-existent, whereas for Xanax or Adderall they were severe.
easily obtained in mexico (good luck getting it across the border), easily ordered from china (comes with a paper trail). the concentrations and efficacy of the pharmaceuticals from these two countries seem to vary significantly, however. because of this, people being testes tend to shy away from these sources.
Walking across the border is very simple, and unless the quantity is huge, it will just be confiscated if found. Ordering from China or India is also very easy and would be done through a cutout. I've known people who made large amounts of money doing both of these things. They preferred selling PEDS because the penalties for possession were minor to non-existent, whereas for Xanax or Adderall they were severe.
many athletes that are in the testing pool deviate from utilizing products from mexico, china, etc because concentrations are unrelaible. because of this, they might be using more of a substance than they think, and would get popped.
It’s not how they race. It’s how they act after the race is finished.
Seemingly no pain, no distress, no discomfort.
Whatever some of these athletes are taking, it is completely removing lactic and the pain cave. So races are now just a test of biomechanics.
To produce a certain time in competition you are hitting splits that are as fast or faster in practice, the body is used to it, why would you expect pain or distress? Watching Sydney after her WRs I’m not shocked she isn’t down on the track for ages, she is ready to run that. What I found funny was watching Cory after the 1500 final in Eugene, clearly many minutes after her event, still breathless and speaking in a very clipped manner, and it was much more a fidget than an actual response from her body.
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