I read all his posts, there is no "abnormality". just citing a "janky form" is just that... talking about her running form. not about some super secret physiological issue. and even if that were true my point is you cant take her apart to to try to make her a different runner. her body is what it is. work with it.
Agree with 1955. I still think she should have waited a mile and jogged behind, but probably no help trying to drop them over 3k either although maybe less leg wear for 10k later this week. I think her front running works better in cross country as it is not as easy to stay exactly behind someone as you have to watch your footing, hills, no inside position advantages, form won't be as smooth, etc. She needs some 800/1500 speed on top of her 71 per lap metronome like pace she does now. That can be fixed. Looking forward to the 10k and really hope she makes it. Too many variables to know if one gets this chance again.
Agree with 1955. I still think she should have waited a mile and jogged behind, but probably no help trying to drop them over 3k either although maybe less leg wear for 10k later this week. I think her front running works better in cross country as it is not as easy to stay exactly behind someone as you have to watch your footing, hills, no inside position advantages, form won't be as smooth, etc. She needs some 800/1500 speed on top of her 71 per lap metronome like pace she does now. That can be fixed. Looking forward to the 10k and really hope she makes it. Too many variables to know if one gets this chance again.
Seeing that she got out kicked at a faster pace you think she should have run slower and then got out kicked? Then she has no Olympic standard with a chance to go, she has no PR and she's still no better than 4th place and possibly even lower.
Agree with 1955. I still think she should have waited a mile and jogged behind, but probably no help trying to drop them over 3k either although maybe less leg wear for 10k later this week. I think her front running works better in cross country as it is not as easy to stay exactly behind someone as you have to watch your footing, hills, no inside position advantages, form won't be as smooth, etc. She needs some 800/1500 speed on top of her 71 per lap metronome like pace she does now. That can be fixed. Looking forward to the 10k and really hope she makes it. Too many variables to know if one gets this chance again.
Seeing that she got out kicked at a faster pace you think she should have run slower and then got out kicked? Then she has no Olympic standard with a chance to go, she has no PR and she's still no better than 4th place and possibly even lower.
She ran the best race she possibly could’ve at this stage of her life. Is she for sure running the 10,000? I can see her maintaining low 73s the entire way.
Well, unlike you, I’m not saying ‘never’. But my point still stands. People like you keep trying to say she will never make a team because she can’t ‘kick’.
Even if she strings together 25 consecutive laps of 72 second 400’s (which is certainly plausible), then she would still become the fastest American woman to run a 10000m.
I didn’t say she will never make an Olympic team, but she needs to improve her PRs to the point, where she won’t need to rely on a kick. The question is whether she can accomplish that. As far as “never” goes, she won’t ever set any ARs and it’s not criticism to point that out.
It may not happen if something precludes improving her running economy. On the other hand, if she does improve her running economy, she might go on to shatter the American 10000m, Half, and Marathon records.
But without fixing whatever is ailing her, it’s possible she may never run a Half or Full marathon.
Many posters believe all AR and Wars all ripe for the picking, but they are all the best out of huge populations of elite runners. Going from 14:53 to 2 X 15:01, is not going to happen and it’s not written in stone, that she isn’t already near her career peak.
It’s not written in stone that at age 21 she is at her peak either. Your posts are tiresome and come across like you don’t want runners to succeed beyond your own expectations.
She ran the standard by a second and she will go when ESP scratched. Couldn't have been a better calculated result.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. No way did Palmer not think this through over the last two weeks. Question now is how will these fast two 5Ks affect ESP by the time she gets to the 1,500 final?
Many posters believe all AR and Wars all ripe for the picking, but they are all the best out of huge populations of elite runners. Going from 14:53 to 2 X 15:01, is not going to happen and it’s not written in stone, that she isn’t already near her career peak.
It’s not written in stone that at age 21 she is at her peak either. Your posts are tiresome and come across like you don’t want runners to succeed beyond your own expectations.
I didn't say that has reached her peak, but to think that in a few years, she will become the fastest American ever to run 10000m, is not realistic.
In this thread I’m just responding to the overreaction to the race last night. Rather than a major breakthrough, it was a repeat of her NCAA 5000m win.
Posters used to gush over Tuohy, but now they want her to suck eggs. Are you one of them?
She ran the standard by a second and she will go when ESP scratched. Couldn't have been a better calculated result.
Exactly. And it was even better because she sensed it early. Beforehand I thought Valby might wait until 2000 to push. But from the first lap she realized that wouldn't be possible toward the standard, since everyone else was content to dawdle.
Brilliant race. My only concern was when she lost contact with one lap remaining. I looked at the clock and saw she hit the line at almost exactly 13:40. That meant she needed 71 to dip under the standard. Given a delated situation that wasn't a given. Sure enough, her pace fell way off but she had banked enough margin to barely slip underneath.
I didn’t say she will never make an Olympic team, but she needs to improve her PRs to the point, where she won’t need to rely on a kick.
Well if, for instance, she becomes strong enough to run a ~30:00 10k, then yes, all of a sudden she would have long-kicking capability in a 30:40 race.
What's really sad about this is if she becomes strong enough to run 30:00 she'll still be over a minute behind the world recortd and far from any chance of a global medal. Here's hoping her ceiling is a LOT higher than 30:00.
You are technically correct here, but I think people are calling brave because so many others seem content to just sit around behind a slow pace even when it's clear they have zero chance with that approach. Yes it was the only way she had a chance, but in a very high pressure situation after already having run a heat, seeing someone actually DO what she did is very refreshing.
All I know is that that was the first 5000 meter race I've seen in a while where many of the competitors were laid out on the track completely spent after the race was over.
Looked like what a crew looks like after a hard rowing race. Everybody was spent.
I was thinking that too, well looked like after the decathlon 1500 or heptathlon 800.
That's if she can stay injury free with more running and less cross training.
Her cross training is certainly not a problem.
Pounding out more miles with her janky form could be a bigger problem. They need to work on it and get it fixed as first priority, before significantly increasing mileage.
I was replying to someone else's comment about how much she can improve her kick and lower her time. But I'm new and that was my first post and forgot to hit the quote button.
The North American record holder (by a large margin) at 5k and 10k does not have much of a kick and could not defeat Schweizer, Cranny, or St. Pierre in the last 800 after a 71 sec pace for the first 4200.
The North American record holder (by a large margin) at 5k and 10k does not have much of a kick and could not defeat Schweizer, Cranny, or St. Pierre in the last 800 after a 71 sec pace for the first 4200.
Yup. Valby is Monson lite but perhaps with even less speed.
Stuck with her strategy to races even at the Olympic Trials. She had no shot of a kick to beat Cranny or St. Pierre so she had to get it going and even ran a PR. She’s got another shot in the 10k at least.
Why are we talking about her and not the other 37 folks who have and will take 4th and the 38 others who have and will take 5th?
The North American record holder (by a large margin) at 5k and 10k does not have much of a kick and could not defeat Schweizer, Cranny, or St. Pierre in the last 800 after a 71 sec pace for the first 4200.
Monson would have more success to date if she raced like Valby.
Valby will continue to be a pacer for the faster women for awhile. She lacks the fitness to keep from getting dropped when it matters most. Valby fans can't stand it but it is what it is.
The fact that she can get such an engine of strength and endurance with cross training is really remarkable. But I just don't see an injury prone runner being able to train for a world class kick. Her best bet will likely be the marathon.
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