Jakob still doesn’t get he can’t lead wire to wire

One for five wrote:

Finance Bro wrote:

This is hilarious how high of a standard we hold Jakob to. Finishing second is a failure apparently. Here are the last 4 global championship finishes of the last 4 global champions at 1500M

Jakob I: 2019: 4th, 2021: 1st, 2022: 2nd, 2023: 2nd

Josh K.: 2019: 6th, 2021: 3rd, 2022: 5th, 2023: 1st

Tim C: 2019: 1st, 2021: 2nd, 2022: 6th, 2023: DNS

Jake W.: 2019: 5th, 2021: 10th, 2022: 1st, 2023: DNS

Jakob has a higher ceiling AND a higher floor than these other athletes. I'm not even sure you can count 2019 against him either as he was only 18 years old and still finished 4th narrowly missing a medal. And nevermind the fact that he has two other gold medals in the 5000m. So tell me, what has Jakob not learned that is holding him back? He's already the best in the world at 1500m championship racing.

If a guy wins every race except the world championship races in his primary distance, something’s wrong.

justanothercuriousdude wrote:

You want to belittle Jakob. But the interesting thing is how you are enforcing that agenda (behind an un registered user name, so you can escape long term countability):

Firstly: You create the username One for five to make the point that Jakob has lost 5 global champs, and only won one. And yes, he lost the three mentioned WC (indoors + outdoors -let’s not take a rematch about sickness just here), and additionally he lost f.ex 1500m in Worlds 2019 and steeple in Worlds 2017.

It’s interesting that most other posters that side with you only say three for one, or four for one (depending on if one thinks it’s fair to go as long back as 2019, not to speak of 2017). But you need a stronger belittling, so you went for five…

What is your agenda here? -Obviously (based on your further expressions) the same as quite a few other posters: To stress that Jakob is able to win Diamond leagues, but not champs, and therefore has a specific weakness…

Jakob has only lost 4 adult 1500m champs. So when you write 5 you have to include another event, f.ex his steeple loss in WC 2017. But then you also have to include his two WC wins in 5000m (when you change events from the 1500m) -but that doesn’t fit your belittling narrative, so of course you skip those two. (You could try to save yourself by looking on U20 events -two 1500m WC losses here -but the you should say six for one, so I’m pretty sure you didn’t mean that…).

Your mentioned illogic in the paragraph above is only a weak warm up. Because the core lack of logic is as follows: When you go back to Jakob’s lack of WC wins in 2019 this isn’t a specific weakness. Because he was inferior to Cheruiyot in every other 1500m race that season. And going back to 2017 when Jakob was 16 seems maybe if possible even to be a larger unfairness, don’t you think..?

But you are using the same belittling strategy against me as a poster: You pretend like I compared any random Euros with the WC’s, when I was very specific in my naming of the weaker and down prioritised indoors WC’s (f.ex in 2024 won by 3.36 man Beamish, without Jakob, Kerr, Nuguse, Wightman, Hoare ++ participating) when contenders in the Euros have had to meat 2 WC gold medalists (Jakob and Jake), and multiple silver and bronze medalists like Katir, Lewandowski and Nordås. Heck -even Worlds 2023 1500m podium was all Europa, with Wigtman and Katir in reserve…

Are you proud of the standard of your posts..?

One for five wrote:

justanothercuriousdude wrote:

You want to belittle Jakob. But the interesting thing is how you are enforcing that agenda (behind an un registered user name, so you can escape long term countability):

Firstly: You create the username One for five to make the point that Jakob has lost 5 global champs, and only won one. And yes, he lost the three mentioned WC (indoors + outdoors -let’s not take a rematch about sickness just here), and additionally he lost f.ex 1500m in Worlds 2019 and steeple in Worlds 2017.

It’s interesting that most other posters that side with you only say three for one, or four for one (depending on if one thinks it’s fair to go as long back as 2019, not to speak of 2017). But you need a stronger belittling, so you went for five…

What is your agenda here? -Obviously (based on your further expressions) the same as quite a few other posters: To stress that Jakob is able to win Diamond leagues, but not champs, and therefore has a specific weakness…

Jakob has only lost 4 adult 1500m champs. So when you write 5 you have to include another event, f.ex his steeple loss in WC 2017. But then you also have to include his two WC wins in 5000m (when you change events from the 1500m) -but that doesn’t fit your belittling narrative, so of course you skip those two. (You could try to save yourself by looking on U20 events -two 1500m WC losses here -but the you should say six for one, so I’m pretty sure you didn’t mean that…).

Your mentioned illogic in the paragraph above is only a weak warm up. Because the core lack of logic is as follows: When you go back to Jakob’s lack of WC wins in 2019 this isn’t a specific weakness. Because he was inferior to Cheruiyot in every other 1500m race that season. And going back to 2017 when Jakob was 16 seems maybe if possible even to be a larger unfairness, don’t you think..?

But you are using the same belittling strategy against me as a poster: You pretend like I compared any random Euros with the WC’s, when I was very specific in my naming of the weaker and down prioritised indoors WC’s (f.ex in 2024 won by 3.36 man Beamish, without Jakob, Kerr, Nuguse, Wightman, Hoare ++ participating) when contenders in the Euros have had to meat 2 WC gold medalists (Jakob and Jake), and multiple silver and bronze medalists like Katir, Lewandowski and Nordås. Heck -even Worlds 2023 1500m podium was all Europa, with Wigtman and Katir in reserve…

Are you proud of the standard of your posts..?

Facts are facts. If you think someone who presents facts is belittling, that’s only because you have difficulty accepting reality.

It appears math isn’t your strong suit. Let me help you. He’s raced 5 world championship 1500m races as an adult:

2019 worlds
2021 Olympics
2022 indoor worlds
2022 worlds
2023 worlds

He’s won 1 of those 5 races. That makes him 1 for 5. Understand?

Armstronglivs wrote:

justanothercuriousdude wrote:

No, I don’t agree. I think not acknowledging a loss is an excuse. But then you have to make a complaint. Jakob hasn’t made any complaints, so he clearly acknowledges his losses. But he gives explanations -you can call these so bad explanations that they stink or something. But they are still explanations. We can discuss if this explanations are good, relevant or accurate -but a human being should be allowed to explain himself if he feels the need. -That doesn’t mean everybody have to buy everything expressed in the explanation… But I personally think that Jakob’s explanations often (not always) are very good (given all I know from context)…

A loss doesn't need an explanation. The athlete was beaten. That is the explanation. The reasons for it are best left to commentators and fans, who can say whatever they like, but from a beaten runner it will sound like excuses.

justanothercuriousdude wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

A loss doesn't need an explanation. The athlete was beaten. That is the explanation. The reasons for it are best left to commentators and fans, who can say whatever they like, but from a beaten runner it will sound like excuses.

A loss needs an explanation. -If I was a coach or athlete I would make it a rule to find out what went wrong, to try to improve and learn. But you confuse these explanations with some of Jakob’s other behaviour (f.ex that he claimed that he was a better runner than Jake). IMO the explanations aren’t the problem, but this very uncalled for “I am still the best” is. And I think Jakob must bear some of the blame here -when he says something over the edge quite a few thinks everything he says is unhinged. But it isn’t. As a matter of fact it’s interesting and called for…

There’s a reason why you mostly use the word excuses whereas I prefer explanations. -Our chosen words are coloured by what we feel and think about the actual athlete. But this is important to be aware of -you risk being too harsh and I too forgiven. Therefore we must be aware of this danger of bias, and give things some afterthought, so we sometimes can moderate ourselves. But that doesn’t mean that a middle way always is the best; a spade is a spade sometimes.

Armstronglivs wrote:

justanothercuriousdude wrote:

A loss needs an explanation. -If I was a coach or athlete I would make it a rule to find out what went wrong, to try to improve and learn. But you confuse these explanations with some of Jakob’s other behaviour (f.ex that he claimed that he was a better runner than Jake). IMO the explanations aren’t the problem, but this very uncalled for “I am still the best” is. And I think Jakob must bear some of the blame here -when he says something over the edge quite a few thinks everything he says is unhinged. But it isn’t. As a matter of fact it’s interesting and called for…

There’s a reason why you mostly use the word excuses whereas I prefer explanations. -Our chosen words are coloured by what we feel and think about the actual athlete. But this is important to be aware of -you risk being too harsh and I too forgiven. Therefore we must be aware of this danger of bias, and give things some afterthought, so we sometimes can moderate ourselves. But that doesn’t mean that a middle way always is the best; a spade is a spade sometimes.

What is between the coach and an athlete is between them. But a public "explanation" by an athlete for a loss is that they were beaten by a better athlete on the day. Anything else is an excuse.