Take Young back to the 70s rather than bringing Rono forward. Take away all of his modern advantages, technology, nutrition, physical therapy and lifestyle. Ill put money on Rono 10/10 times.
Nico has run faster, he is not a better runner than Rono. Times have been made irrelevant thanks to the shoes.
If what you say is true, then Solinsky, Fischer, Tuntivate, etc. are all better than Rono.
If you think that Henry Rono is a better runner than Grant Fischer you are delusional. His 10k PR is 50 seconds faster 😂
Grant Fischer 3k PR is at a faster pace than Rono's mile PR.
You're so biased it's incredible. This comment section is full of old failures that will cling on to lies to make themselves feel better about how embarrassingly slow they were.
You never answered. What makes Nico better?
Even if we forget the shoes:
Rono has a faster 3k than Nico. Rono is a 3 time NCAA cross country champion, all 3 championship times faster than Nico’s NCAA cross times. Rono has a much faster steeplechase time, still the record.
Rono may be the greatest natural talent ever, if not for his alcohol addiction and erratic training his times would have been much faster.....and without super shoes.
Was looking for this. Rono was one of the greatest. And not in a "competition was worse back then" kind of way. It was before my time, but I studied up.
What if the track spikes actually don't make that much physical difference but that there is more of a placebo effect plus the existence of so many more paced races for time than ever before so that runners get much closer to their max theoretical times? After all, Shelby Houlihan ran 14:24 with old spikes. Was she really capable of running 1/2 s per lap quicker with the new spikes (14:11-12)?
To be as good as Henry Rono actually performed--and thus not to attend to his theoretical abilities with no drinking problems--relative to his era, Nico Young would have to destroy three different major distance records in a few months. To be as good as the legend of Henry Rono, the Henry Rono who surely could have dominated his entire era had he been sober and dedicated for that whole time period and realized his enormous talent for more than just short periods of time, would require that he dominate his era. So, it's a tough task. Competition is much, much tougher now at 3k-10k than it was during his era. Rono was also much older than Nico Young when he dominated in college and set the three world records. Malmo make think the latter is an automaton but he's 21. He's run 12:57, 3:48 equivalent, and likely would run 7:30 or a bit under at 3k. Nor is he in any way physically mature in the way that a guy in his mid 20s is. He has some major form issues still. Look at how tense he is in the images of his NCAA 5k and his 10000m performances. He's still an upright runner. So, he's not physically capped at all, despite having very high level coaching with Brosnan and Smith, starting from his freshman year of high school. In the end, I do believe that in this era, Rono as he was would be running in the 12:30s but that's all just speculation.
Also, Young's run 11 seconds faster at 5000m and 28 seconds at 10000m, so he is actually much faster than Rono ever was. The fact that you need to make a bunch of emendations and conversions to reject the comparison shows that it is not an unserious comparison. A better comparison would be to see what Young runs at 26.
Also, Young's run 11 seconds faster at 5000m and 28 seconds at 10000m, so he is actually much faster than Rono ever was. The fact that you need to make a bunch of emendations and conversions to reject the comparison shows that it is not an unserious comparison. A better comparison would be to see what Young runs at 26.
How do you square Young’s much worse cross country performances? Based on time alone Rono beats Young every time in cross country.
- hint the shoes don’t perform as well on soft surfaces.
If in five years there's a race where 10 twenty one year olds break 13 most of us will think there's some sort of technological improvement responsible for most those performances.
This is your entire argument in summation.
If anyone runs faster than Rono (even if you're 30 seconds faster) it's because of technology.
If anyone ever runs better than someone I like 😡 then they're times are fake.
In your mind, nobody can be better than him. Nobody has a chance. Okay fine you can have that opinion. but...
WHY ARE WATCHING THE SPORT? Why do you follow track if nobody can ever outdo Rono? Why don't you just watch his videos on YouTube on repeat? What's the point?
Why even try if you can never beat Henry Rono?
You're an idiot bro, you don't understand track and you don't care about the athletes. Nico Young has been running for a decade, getting better ever single day, going to altitude camps, running through tendinitis, dying 2 times every week on the track, doing double thresholds, running tempos faster than Rono's half marathon PR, but it's all for nothing because no matter how fast he runs it will never count. The shoes are unfair, the track is too bouncy, wait you didn't solo time trial Nico, sorry doesn't count?? Oh wow Nico, congrats on the collegiate record, but you can never actually be better than this athlete I like 😹😹.
I don't know if you've noticed this, but about half of the things you're claiming I said are things I did not say. and most of what you say makes no sense. Why do I watch track if no one can beat Rono? Why wouldn't I? I enjoy watching distance races even though I doubt that anyone in them is as good as Henry was at his peak. And what's with saying Young's times won't count? Of course they count. How could they not count? Everyone's times count if they're run in a recognized competition. Why even try if you can't beat Rono? I'm almost speechless about that comment. There are lots of people to beat other than Henry and given that Henry's not in any races anymore no one can beat him. You run to beat the people in your race, to be faster than you've done, to place as high as you can. Contrary to what you say, in my mind it's entirely possible that someone can be better than Henry was. I just haven't seen anything suggesting that someone like that has come along so far. Maybe someone will. When he's finally done maybe it will turn out to be Young. But he'll need to do much, much, more than he's done so far for that to be the case. Running a faster time than Henry's best under conditions that were set up to produce the fastest possible times using shoes that were created to produce the fastest possible times in a race he did not even win doesn't come close to being better than Henry.
So what’s more impressive: having world records in 1978 before distance running got raised to the higher level we have now, or having the 7th fastest time in history today, when our current world record in the 10,000 was run at a faster pace than Rono ran for his 5,000 record?
Is this a real question? Having world records in 1978 is better.
Also Fisher has the 12th fastest time in history, not the 7th (he is the 7th fastest performer).
Yes, it’s a real question. Think of it this way: Is it better to be Division 2 NCAA champion or finish 7th in Division 1? Or, since we’re now in March Madness, is it better to be the NAIA tournament champion or reach the Elite 8 of the NCAA tournament?
Is this a real question? Having world records in 1978 is better.
Also Fisher has the 12th fastest time in history, not the 7th (he is the 7th fastest performer).
Yes, it’s a real question. Think of it this way: Is it better to be Division 2 NCAA champion or finish 7th in Division 1? Or, since we’re now in March Madness, is it better to be the NAIA tournament champion or reach the Elite 8 of the NCAA tournament?
I seem to recall that you are gay. Now I mean absolutely no disrespect here, but do you think that could be partly why you are arguing so vociferously about this? Or it has no bearing?
To be as good as Henry Rono actually performed--and thus not to attend to his theoretical abilities with no drinking problems--relative to his era, Nico Young would have to destroy three different major distance records in a few months. To be as good as the legend of Henry Rono, the Henry Rono who surely could have dominated his entire era had he been sober and dedicated for that whole time period and realized his enormous talent for more than just short periods of time, would require that he dominate his era. So, it's a tough task. Competition is much, much tougher now at 3k-10k than it was during his era.
If we agree that the competition is much tougher today than it was in 1978, then why would Nico have to break today’s world records to be considered as good as Rono? Wouldn’t something like finishing top 5 in the world at a global championship in today’s era, as Fisher has done, be considered just as good if not better than being #1 in a weaker era?
I’ve seen many people here argue that neither Nurmi nor Zátopek are the GOAT because even though their Olympic exploits are superior to what anyone else has done in the professional era, their times are so much slower than what people run today, and their level of competition was lower. If that’s true for their era, then why wouldn’t that same rationale apply to Rono’s era? The time differences aren’t as immense, but they are still substantial. Again, today’s 10,000 world record was run at a faster pace than Rono’s best 5,000.
There are several comments in this thread about Rono dominating his competition after a night of drinking or being overweight. While those comments are meant to highlight Rono’s supreme talent, they also underscore his lower level of competition. Good luck getting away with that today in a 5,000 race against the likes of Jakob, Cheptegei, Krop, Barega, Aregawi, and Kejelcha!
I seem to recall that you are gay. Now I mean absolutely no disrespect here, but do you think that could be partly why you are arguing so vociferously about this? Or it has no bearing?
Good memory! If any identity is influencing me, I’d say it’s my American identity. I have a strong track record of defending numerous American athletes on this board. My posting history shows I support three track and field teams: Team USA, Team Bekele, and Team Dibaba.
Contrary to what you say, in my mind it's entirely possible that someone can be better than Henry was. I just haven't seen anything suggesting that someone like that has come along so far. Maybe someone will. When he's finally done maybe it will turn out to be Young. But he'll need to do much, much, more than he's done so far for that to be the case. Running a faster time than Henry's best under conditions that were set up to produce the fastest possible times using shoes that were created to produce the fastest possible times in a race he did not even win doesn't come close to being better than Henry.
NICO RAN 30 SECONDS FASTER AT 21, WHAT MORE DOES HE NEED TO DO.
Your measure of "much, much more" is arbitrary... Your argument is not based on anything other than your feelings.
That's the entire point, you won't let Nico be better, to you Henry Rono will always be better than Nico.
Anyone that doesn't have extremely deep seeded bias will have seen that Nico was 30 seconds fasters and then thought "oh well, the shoes and lights help, but there's no way it's half a minute"
But because you're a fanboy, you're using every excuse and justification in the book to claim Rono is better. It's track and field, they time the races for a reason. In 3 years, Nico will be 70 seconds faster than Rono and you'll still be crying when your hero gets lapped.
I seem to recall that you are gay. Now I mean absolutely no disrespect here, but do you think that could be partly why you are arguing so vociferously about this? Or it has no bearing?
Good memory! If any identity is influencing me, I’d say it’s my American identity. I have a strong track record of defending numerous American athletes on this board. My posting history shows I support three track and field teams: Team USA, Team Bekele, and Team Dibaba.
OK fair enough. I think we can all be excited about Nico’s future without comparing him to the multi world record holder Rono. Nico is really amazing to have run 26:52 at age 21. If he stays healthy, who knows what he might achieve? I can say that, although I am not gay, I often felt a bit like an outsider and my home life was not so great growing up, and it helped my running. Not sure if Nico feels like an outsider but he sure does have what it takes to be great.
Is this a real question? Having world records in 1978 is better.
Also Fisher has the 12th fastest time in history, not the 7th (he is the 7th fastest performer).
Yes, it’s a real question. Think of it this way: Is it better to be Division 2 NCAA champion or finish 7th in Division 1? Or, since we’re now in March Madness, is it better to be the NAIA tournament champion or reach the Elite 8 of the NCAA tournament?
Contrary to what you say, in my mind it's entirely possible that someone can be better than Henry was. I just haven't seen anything suggesting that someone like that has come along so far. Maybe someone will. When he's finally done maybe it will turn out to be Young. But he'll need to do much, much, more than he's done so far for that to be the case. Running a faster time than Henry's best under conditions that were set up to produce the fastest possible times using shoes that were created to produce the fastest possible times in a race he did not even win doesn't come close to being better than Henry.
NICO RAN 30 SECONDS FASTER AT 21, WHAT MORE DOES HE NEED TO DO.
Your measure of "much, much more" is arbitrary... Your argument is not based on anything other than your feelings.
That's the entire point, you won't let Nico be better, to you Henry Rono will always be better than Nico.
Anyone that doesn't have extremely deep seeded bias will have seen that Nico was 30 seconds fasters and then thought "oh well, the shoes and lights help, but there's no way it's half a minute"
But because you're a fanboy, you're using every excuse and justification in the book to claim Rono is better. It's track and field, they time the races for a reason. In 3 years, Nico will be 70 seconds faster than Rono and you'll still be crying when your hero gets lapped.
Reading comprehansion is not your strong suit is it? In my last post I said that I thought it was possible that someone would come along who is better than Henry was. so wher do you get this stuff about me saying Rono will always be better? Seriously, how do you come up with "to (me) Rono will always be better?
Reading comprehansion is not your strong suit is it? In my last post I said that I thought it was possible that someone would come along who is better than Henry was. so wher do you get this stuff about me saying Rono will always be better? Seriously, how do you come up with "to (me) Rono will always be better?
IT'S 30 SECONDS BRO... It's half a lap. Nico is better, you won't accept the truth. If you don't think 30 seconds is enough time, then it's very clear that nothing will ever be enough.
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