Your Bonds take just made the opposite argument. Yes Bonds was a HOF before the drugs. But the drugs made him all time HR champ, a legendary status if BALCO hadn’t been uncovered.
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rekrunner wrote:
standards wrote:
Yes. You started with "maybe":
"Maybe you have cause and effect backwards: the high number of talented athletes in Kenya results in proportionally more athletes subject to more tests, and proportionally more busts."
Yes, the second half is correct, but that does neither prove that Kenya is only average in doping nor that Coevett had cause and effect backwards.
Maybe he does have it backwards. But certainly more talent leads to more success, which leads to more testing, which leads to more busts.
Maybe Kenya's depth of top-talent is from doping, but this is also unproven hypothesis.
Amongst elites all dopers have talent. It is irrelevant. Kenyans continue to dope. 50 further busts shows that. If that occurred amongst my own country's athletes I would ask for a ban. But you do nothing but try to justify or minimise it. That, too, is disgraceful.
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El Keniano wrote:
50 busts would be more than enough to wipe out any country from any given sport. Let's see if Kenya's competitiveness suffers even a little and European runners stop training in the Rift Valley because Kenya's running success is a lie (hint: won't happen).
50 busts should indeed be enough to wipe their country's sport. But not for the reasons you say. Their credibility is gone.
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Charlesvdw wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Will be revealed at end of the month. Stock up on the popcorn! And well done the ADAK for doing their job.
Is this something like the "A titan will fall" thread that never happened ?
I think 50 busts says more than one bust - even a "titan". Perhaps the "titan" is Kenya? It has fallen.
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Scroll down and see MORE racially.biased post. Trumpers out in full force here. Full stop
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DWaddel wrote:
Your Bonds take just made the opposite argument. Yes Bonds was a HOF before the drugs. But the drugs made him all time HR champ, a legendary status if BALCO hadn’t been uncovered.
No that is the argument I made. There was no opposite argument. Opposite of what?
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hath to be said wrote:
Don't forget: this is about ADAK busts, not AIU. ADAK hasn't busted a single athlete of Jepchirchir's calibre yet - that's always AIU (Kipruto, Kiptum, Kipsang and so on and so on).
The reason is AIU and ADAK are working together to cast their net as wide as possible and avoid overlap. AIU doesn't have the resources to test the thousands of lower tier athletes plying local circuits. This board will have a ball discussing household names like James Gikunga Karanja and Esther Birundu Borura and still wonder why Kenya's conveyor belt of talent isn't slowing down.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
Charlesvdw wrote:
Is this something like the "A titan will fall" thread that never happened ?
I think 50 busts says more than one bust - even a "titan". Perhaps the "titan" is Kenya? It has fallen.
Has it? In your dreams, maybe.
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standards wrote:
Well now we are getting somewhere. It is well established that there were no blood ooc tests in Kenya in the 2000s, so we can't just ignore that, just because we cannot quantify that bias.
But even when you did ignore that, you found only 12 countries (out of 53? 94? 204?) that were more suspicious in blood doping. Clearly Kenya was at absolute minimum in the worst 25% of all countries depicted (13/53 = 24.5%).
So your claim that this database "fails to show EPO use in East Africa during 2000-2012" is completely wrong, unless you mean they could have used blood transfusions instead of EPO.
If the ABP was only approved and implemented by the IAAF in Dec. 2009, has it been well established that there was OOC blood testing anywhere in any country in the 2000s?
I didn't ignore any alleged OOC bias, but said you have no supporting data for it, to show that we should not ignore it. We often ignore things when they are known to exist but insignificant, like air-resistance in physics calculations, or non-outcome determinative fraud in elections.
To clarify my last claim, I followed with "it's a fact that the published blood doping data doesn't support EPO or blood doping as a significant factor, in that timeframe ..."
These claims are always in the context of significance with respect to doping explaining elite performance and East African dominance, as "trollism" insinuates ("East African countries went from being strong distance running nations to completely dominant pretty much at the time EPO became available.") If EPO helped East Africans dominate, this large database suggests we should similarly see signs and degrees of it helping some of the athletes from some of these 12 countries too.
Recall again, when I counted top male athletes up to Jan. 2018 (performances better than an average top-5 1990 benchmark), Kenyans running for Kenya (226) outnumbered Ethiopia by nearly a factor of 3, and Ethiopians running for Ethiopia (88) matched the East Africans running for other countries (27) plus the North Africans (30) plus the rest of the world (32). This distribution of top athletes is not reflected in any doping prevalence or suspicion analysis, no matter how you slice it. In order to find the reasons for Kenyan, and East African dominance, you have to look far beyond doping.
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This quoted post has been removed.
Haven't you got a better thread for your mentally ill musings?
There are enough doping deniers and fake Kenyans on this thread that it's pretty close to the 'loony threshold' as it is.
If it crosses that line (and you're more than capable of pushing that limit alone), the advanced lunatic detecting AI that letsrun uses will automatically delete the thread.
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trollism wrote:
This quoted post has been removed.
Haven't you got a better thread for your mentally ill musings?
There are enough doping deniers and fake Kenyans on this thread that it's pretty close to the 'loony threshold' as it is.
If it crosses that line (and you're more than capable of pushing that limit alone), the advanced lunatic detecting AI that letsrun uses will automatically delete the thread.
I didn't drag the thread in this direction. Others did. I will reply to smears with facts however.
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.12 -
El Keniano wrote:
The reason is AIU and ADAK are working together to cast their net as wide as possible and avoid overlap. AIU doesn't have the resources to test the thousands of lower tier athletes plying local circuits. This board will have a ball discussing household names like James Gikunga Karanja and Esther Birundu Borura and still wonder why Kenya's conveyor belt of talent isn't slowing down.
The 'argument' that Kenyans have some special genetic adaptations for distance running is based chiefly on all the dozens of sub 2:10 marathoners. That argument is certainly about to be swept away.
ADAK doesn't have the resources to test 'thousands' of Kenyans either, even with all the money they have been given. These busts, which will only be the start, are going to decimate the top 100 lists. And if ADAK are true to their word and close down camps where doping is rife or athletes are 'running away from tests', then it's all going to be catastrophic for Kenyan distance running.
I think we missed another one who was banned for eight years a couple of weeks ago. :12 -
This quoted post has been removed.
Why is this raging antisemite allowed to wreck a thread on Kenyan doping with his Hitler rants?
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This quoted post has been removed.
Why didn't Trollism go after Big Difference?
Because he doesn't mind this thread going in that direction if he agrees with the comment.
Only when the comment gets effectively responded to does he pretend he is offended that the thread is veering off its original point
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Another article.
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The ADAK woman says that this was done in order to send a clean team to the Paris Olympics. So that would indicate that not all of the 50+ busts are sub-elite road runners.
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Coevett wrote:
This quoted post has been removed.
Why is this raging antisemite allowed to wreck a thread on Kenyan doping with his Hitler rants?
Had to block this name calling, African hating juvenile of a man
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There won't be any "decimation" Coevett. Plenty of clean runners ready to step in. This is just the worst stage of the "it-will-get-worse-before-it-gets-better" prediction by the AIU head. It's the actual weeding out of the lower rungs of road runninghas happened with track runners who rarely get busted these days despite increased testing.
So your favourite event, the 800m, will see even more competition for Varicose Burgin.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.30 -
Coevett wrote:
The 'argument' that Kenyans have some special genetic adaptations for distance running is based chiefly on all the dozens of sub 2:10 marathoners.
No, it's based mainly on the thousands of Kenyan distance runners who have won hundreds of races and placed high in thousands all over the world since well over 60 years.
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