We like to have 1 thread per topic so we merged two threads together and kept the title of this thread. The other thread was entitled, "Assefa performance."
Why is it not possible for a woman to run 2.11.xx without drugs? Please respond with facts, thank you.
You needed to have followed the sport. In my youth the greatest male marathon runner was another Ethiopian, Abebe Bikila. He trained full-time and destroyed the competition while setting a world record when he won the Tokyo Olympics marathon (repeating his wr victory from Rome 4 years earlier). She is a novice, converting from the 800m. She is now faster than his world record - a MAN'S world record - on only her third effort at the distance. If you understand the differences between the best male and female athletes - which cannot be bridged by talent, training, technique (or shoes) - what she has done is not possible. Unless doped beyond belief.
1) In 1960, the womens WR was 3:30 while the men’s WR was 2:15. Things change.
2) It appears you’ve set the absolute limit for women at something a man did (while barefoot) 60 years ago. That’s weird.
3) Speaking of “novices”, it also appears Bikila broke the world record in his 3rd marathon. Thoughts?
I'm not going back and reading through this thread to see if anything similar was mentioned but this is just does not seem feasible to me. This would have been competitive with and even sometimes beaten guys like Frank Shorter, Bill Rodgers and others back in the day and even AlSal later on.
This just seems to be the most unbelievable performance in the history of sports.
Unfortunately we'll never know because there are drugs and there are super shoes. What I do know is that someone who ran a 2:33 two years ago is not running a 2:11 without some help from the pharm.
Unfortunately we'll never know because there are drugs and there are super shoes. What I do know is that someone who ran a 2:33 two years ago is not running a 2:11 without some help from the pharm.
The super shoes don't bother me. Technology advancements have been made in all sports. it's just how it is.
It is the blatant and obvious use of PEDs that is the issue. There has been a lot of it in the sport this year.
What was the men's world record in the mile back in 1964? Something like 3:55? Faith Kipyegon just ran 4:07 which is nowhere close to 3:55.
Interesting how the women have improved much more in the marathon compared to men vs the shorter distances. It can't just be drugs. Maybe the super shoes worn for road racing help a lot more than the super spikes on the track?
The men's world record in '64 for the mile was 3:54. 1:44 for the 800. The women's marathon record is now faster than the men's marathon record of that era. That is a massive and exponential increase in female endurance. It can only be achieved by drugs - training and shoes alone won't do it.
So you're proclaiming "training and shoes alone won't do it" with nothing in support? Noted. Keep posting.
Multiple studies have shown that women burn fat more efficiently than men, so it is not surprising that women are capable of running fast marathon times. A simple search on Google will reveal numerous articles on this subject.
This is a poor post. Western women will start training at the same mileage that the men are. It’s happening all over the world right now. The men’s middle distances used to be dominated by African athletes but it’s changed.
Wow, you make a great point. That is a shocking reality check.
That's an interesting comparison.
What was the men's world record in the mile back in 1964? Something like 3:55? Faith Kipyegon just ran 4:07 which is nowhere close to 3:55.
Interesting how the women have improved much more in the marathon compared to men vs the shorter distances. It can't just be drugs. Maybe the super shoes worn for road racing help a lot more than the super spikes on the track?
An argument for the shoes would be they help with recovery so the longer the race the fresher your legs feel relatively. The shorter distances benefit from more training but are still about pure speed. Even Des in her Brooks says 20 miles no longer feels like what it used to. And it's taken away from the grind aspect of the marathon. London won by a 1500m runner. Now you need 800m speed?
I believe she used PEDs to achieve this result. I’m not particularly interested in arguing about it though, I’m just contributing this factual tidbit:
The difference between the half marathon and marathon WRs for men/women is now very close. On the men’s side, 57:31 x 2 + 6:07 = 2:01:09; on the women’s, 62:52 x 2 + 6:09 = 2:11:53. In a way, this makes 2:11:53 for a woman seem more fathomable—though it’s very likely that all four WRs were achieved with the help of PEDs.
You need to adjust the 6:09 by a percentage given the longer running time, poor logic.
I really worry that in the near future, no one will be able to break a World Record without being suspected of Drugs, I hope I am wrong and most will see new World Records as solely because of Hard Work, Consistency and Dedication in Training, proper amount of sleep and a fairly Healthy Diet
I believe she used PEDs to achieve this result. I’m not particularly interested in arguing about it though, I’m just contributing this factual tidbit:
The difference between the half marathon and marathon WRs for men/women is now very close. On the men’s side, 57:31 x 2 + 6:07 = 2:01:09; on the women’s, 62:52 x 2 + 6:09 = 2:11:53. In a way, this makes 2:11:53 for a woman seem more fathomable—though it’s very likely that all four WRs were achieved with the help of PEDs.
Well, most likely all world records are aided that way; no need to single this one out.
For example, 20 years ago today, the marathon WRs were 2:15:25 and 2:05:38 (difference of 9:47), now they are 2:11:53 and 2:01:09 (difference of 10:44). Improvements of 4 minutes over 20 years in the marathon are not that spectacular. I expect to see sub-2:10 and sub-2:00 before the end of this decade.
I note your points. I personally do believe Eliud's previous 2 WRs especially the most recent one in 2022 was definitely doped up despite the shoes. I don't quite like his age compared to Assefa's so that's part of the reason. I'm less inclined to think Jacob's 57:31 and Gidey's 62:52 is doped also due to their suitable ages. I know I talk a lot about supershoes, wavelights, drugs etc but I urge people not to forget one of the most important temporality aspects of distance WRs is the age at which it was commissioned. Out of Gidey, Jacob, Assefa and Eliud, Eliud is least like the rest in terms of age.
So I will quickly eliminate Eliud Kipchoge from the list of clean runners first and put on hold the rest!
You people are relaly too innocent... I can't believe there are still people out there who think any world record breaking athlete today is clean.
Maybe those people are kids, who knows.
In any case, NOW do you guys get it? Maybe not. Maybe you just enjoy fantasy.
It's funny watching people on this thread go wild. 100% Americans here I'm sure. Jealousy from the joggers. As soon as she accomplished this unprecedented feat I couldn't wait to see the sweat dripping hatred here. Lets face it in the next 10 years women will run a 2:10 marathon, 1/2 marathon in close to 1 hour, a 5k in 13min range, run a 10k in 28 min range and come close to the 4 minute mile and there is nothing the joggers of Letsrun can do about it. But it will be funny over that time watching the reactions here :)
Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win a LetsRun t-shirt.Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win one of 10 LetsRun t-shirts.