AFAB and AMAB are terms specifically designed to obscure the fact that 99+% of the time sex is not “assigned” at birth it is recognized at birth.
So let's pretend 1% did not exist because their existence is inconvenient for the 99%.
What a wonderful ideology!
You mean the .02%? I am not pretending they don't exist, I'm saying we don't need to apply the AFAB/AMAB euphemism to people to whom it does not apply.
Anne Fausto-Sterling s suggestion that the prevalence of intersex might be as high as 1.7% has attracted wide attention in both the scholarly press and the popular media. Many reviewers are not aware that this figure includes...
Just stop. You're using the existence of a rare sexual development disorder to pretend that sexual dimorphism in humans isn't a fact. And this is simply a tactic to bait people into saying something factual but allegedly "problematic" about people with DSDs.
You're engaged in a political maneuver, not an argument.
Sounds like you also agree that sex is tricky to classify as binary because of the existence of rare exceptions, but the only difference is that you don’t give a damn about them exceptions while many others do.
There are no exceptions.
People with intersex conditions are still either male or female based on the presence of an SRY gene, which is the determinant of biological sex. Notice in the list from the link below they classify the intersex conditions as specific to males, females or both - no mention of third sexes or spectrums. If your understanding of biological sex includes anything about a "spectrum," you don't understand basic biology.
So let's pretend 1% did not exist because their existence is inconvenient for the 99%.
What a wonderful ideology!
You mean the .02%? I am not pretending they don't exist, I'm saying we don't need to apply the AFAB/AMAB euphemism to people to whom it does not apply.
Sounds like you also agree that sex is tricky to classify as binary because of the existence of rare exceptions, but the only difference is that you don’t give a damn about them exceptions while many others do.
There are no exceptions.
People with intersex conditions are still either male or female based on the presence of an SRY gene, which is the determinant of biological sex. Notice in the list from the link below they classify the intersex conditions as specific to males, females or both - no mention of third sexes or spectrums. If your understanding of biological sex includes anything about a "spectrum," you don't understand basic biology.
AFAB and AMAB are terms specifically designed to obscure the fact that 99+% of the time sex is not “assigned” at birth it is recognized at birth.
So let's pretend 1% did not exist because their existence is inconvenient for the 99%.
What a wonderful ideology!
The 1% figure way overstates the percentage of humans who have DSDs, though. And it way, way overstates the percentage of humans who have the handful of DSDs that might cause, and have caused, issues in girls' and women's sports.
Only 0.018% of the population have DSDs that could cause them to be mis-sexed as babies - and hardly anyone has a DSD that can cause them and their loved ones not to twig to their sex once they reach and get past the age of pubertty of adolescence.
The DSD athletes who've historically been subject to exclusion from, or restrictions in, the female category all have testes,male levels of testosterone and, in most cases, enough working male androgen receptors that they went through male puberties of infancy and adolescence and gained male-typical physical advantages as a result.
People with the particular kinds of DSDs that fit this description are an even a smaller fraction than the 0.018% of the population with all the DSDs that can result in being mis-sexed prior to puberty or having sex chromosomes at odds with their outwardly apparent morphology.
Yet again and again, you and other gender identity ideologues trot out this teeny-tiny group of people with testes who probably make up something like 0.009% of the total population to pretend that the 51% of humans who were born with ovaries rather than testes - and with the other internal female reproductive organs - aren't a distinct sex class extremely diffrent to males physically. And to decree that we don't have the right to have words just for ourselves that clearly distinguish us from males with DSDs and which can't be appropriated by or applied to males who claim they "identify as" or "feel like" girls, women, females.
Moreover, you constantly allege that because some people with testes have androgen insenstivity like Maria Jose Martinez Patino and Dutee Chand do, and other people with testes have enzyme deficiencies like Caster Semenya and Chrisine Mboma do - and still other people with testes take testosterone-suppressing medications and exogenous estrogen - it means that it's cruel, bigoted, morally wrong and unjustifiable to have any sports and spaces exclusively for the half of the human race born with ovaries rather than testes.
This post was edited 10 minutes after it was posted.
So let's pretend 1% did not exist because their existence is inconvenient for the 99%.
What a wonderful ideology!
You mean the .02%? I am not pretending they don't exist, I'm saying we don't need to apply the AFAB/AMAB euphemism to people to whom it does not apply.
Moreover, you constantly allege that because some people with testes have androgen insenstivity like Maria Jose Martinez Patino and Dutee Chand do, and other people with testes have enzyme deficiencies like Caster Semenya and Chrisine Mboma do -
You constantly allege but have never presented any evidence of Chand’s karyotype or possession of testes.
I’m a connecticut high school runner. Basing any argument over trans athletes in sports over the ciac class MM championship is one of the dumber things I’ve heard. I’ve lost close state meets in the team title race, but when we lost we’d be blaming ourselves for not performing at a certain level, not attacking another team for having better performances. I highly doubt any girls on the other competitive MM teams left New Britain complaining their team lost because of a trans athlete, they’re complaining about their own 4x4 split or something. Also the trans girl didn’t throw any national records, she lost in the shotput at the state open today. Sure there’s a biological advantage, but so is having more natural talent or immigrating from Kenya where you grew up running to school at altitude.
No one is erasing anyone. But the solution to anomalous contingencies isn’t to err on benefiting the theoretical 0.02% at the expense of the remaining 99.98% .
I’m a connecticut high school runner. Basing any argument over trans athletes in sports over the ciac class MM championship is one of the dumber things I’ve heard. I’ve lost close state meets in the team title race, but when we lost we’d be blaming ourselves for not performing at a certain level, not attacking another team for having better performances. I highly doubt any girls on the other competitive MM teams left New Britain complaining their team lost because of a trans athlete, they’re complaining about their own 4x4 split or something. Also the trans girl didn’t throw any national records, she lost in the shotput at the state open today. Sure there’s a biological advantage, but so is having more natural talent or immigrating from Kenya where you grew up running to school at altitude.
The system keeps you down by making you complicit in your own oppression, and ideally completely blind to it.
Trust me, I’m a white male. I know how we run things.
When you become the mouthpiece that ratifies and minimizes your oppression, we’ve really worked our magic.
I’m a connecticut high school runner. Basing any argument over trans athletes in sports over the ciac class MM championship is one of the dumber things I’ve heard. I’ve lost close state meets in the team title race, but when we lost we’d be blaming ourselves for not performing at a certain level, not attacking another team for having better performances. I highly doubt any girls on the other competitive MM teams left New Britain complaining their team lost because of a trans athlete, they’re complaining about their own 4x4 split or something. Also the trans girl didn’t throw any national records, she lost in the shotput at the state open today. Sure there’s a biological advantage, but so is having more natural talent or immigrating from Kenya where you grew up running to school at altitude.
Sigh.
You had me until "immigrating from Kenya where you grew up 'running to school at altitude'."
Being assigned male at birth is not an athletic gift over girls. It is a horrible insult to cis women to suggest as much.
Not every Kenyan is a naturally gifted runner. Suggesting that an athlete of Kenyan descent has some natural advantage over you implies that their accomplishments aren't a result of character or hard work. It's gross, and it happens to Kenyan and black athletes all the time.
No one is attacking another team for having better performances. They are stating the rules are unfair because trans girls have an unfair advantage over cis girls.
No one is erasing anyone. But the solution to anomalous contingencies isn’t to err on benefiting the theoretical 0.02% at the expense of the remaining 99.98% .
Unlike the Rightwing Cultural Warriors of LRC, World Athletics actually thinks that every anomaly matters. They don't erase people for the sake of "simplicity."
A woman who has androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS) is completely (CAIS) or partially (PAIS) insensitive to testosterone, thereby eliminating (CAIS) or reducing (PAIS) the physiological effect of that testosterone. An athlete with CAIS is not a Relevant Athlete. An athlete with PAIS will only be a Relevant Athlete if they are sufficiently androgen-sensitive for her elevated testosterone levels to have a material androgenising effect. The benefit of any doubt on this issue will be resolved in favour of the athlete.
In regard to transgender athletes, the Council has agreed to exclude male-to-female transgender athletes who have been through male puberty from female World Rankings competition from 31 March 2023.
The World Athletics Council has today made a number of important decisions regarding the future participation of the Russian and Belarusian Member Federations in athletics, and the eligibility regulations for athletes who are...
Apparently, LRC does not want me to upload the pdf file. Here is the title of the file.
ELIGIBILITY REGULATIONS FOR THE FEMALE CLASSIFICATION (ATHLETES WITH DIFFERENCES OF SEX DEVELOPMENT) (Version 3.0, approved by Council on 23 March 2023, and coming into effect on 31 March 2023)
A friend one told me "it's not like any transgender kids are winning NCAA's.... leave it alone." Then when the swimmer one he said... "It's not like the person who took second is losing, she is getting so many tv deals rn..." and then when the HS kids started winning he said "it's not like they aren't getting any scholarship deals.."
there was always another layer of excuses. one after the other.... the bottoms line is it's taking something away from women. real women. who fought so hard for rights to be equitable. and now we are telling them "its ok you lost! stop crying about it.... what are you some sort of sissy? the winner isn't a sissy!" it's unreal
You mean the .02%? I am not pretending they don't exist, I'm saying we don't need to apply the AFAB/AMAB euphemism to people to whom it does not apply.
So would it be okay to erase people if they are 0.02% instead of 1%?
How would you feel if you were erased?
Not erase people, but continue to live a principled life which factors objective reality to how a person “feels” regardless of whether that feeling is in good faith or used in bad faith to attempt to gain an advantage.
Ad personally if we can’t have it both ways, we should always serve the greater good, and the greater good here is protecting the integrity of sport for around 50% of society rather than 2% or less, and very possibly much less
4. b. Male-to-female transgender athletes (transgender women) and athletes with 46 XY DSD whose legal gender and/or gender identity is female are eligible to compete in the women’s category in FINA competitions and to set FINA World Records in the women’s category in FINA competitions and in other events recognised by FINA if they can establish to FINA’s comfortable satisfaction that they have not experienced any part of male puberty beyond Tanner Stage 2 or before age 12, whichever is later.
Specifically, the athlete must produce evidence establishing that:
i. They have complete androgen insensitivity and therefore could not experience male puberty; or
ii. They are androgen sensitivebut had male puberty suppressed beginning at Tanner Stage 2 or before age 12, whichever is later, and they have since continuously maintained their testosterone levels in serum (or plasma) below 2.5 nmol/L.
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