Did you read study #3? The results are kind of amazing. Check out Figure 2.
"Results Participants were 26.2 years old (SD 5.5).
Prior to gender affirming hormones, transmen performed 43% fewer push-ups and ran 1.5 miles 15% slower than their male counterparts. After 1 year of taking masculinising hormones, there was no longer a difference in push-ups or run times, and the number of sit-ups performed in 1 min by transmen exceeded the average performance of their male counterparts."
After a couple of years of hormone therapy, transmen OUTPERFORM males! Who would have expected that result?
To be accurate: The females on T in that Air Force study outperformed their male counterparts in only one measure: the number of sit-ups performed in 1 minute.
As to the question - "Who would have expected that result?" - my answer is: Anyone who knows about female and male core strength and capacity.
Although males have much more upper body muscle mass and strength overall, situps are one area where the two sexes perform in pretty close range to one another, and where many fit women can outdo men. This is true even for fit women not on T.
IIRC, records for the US President's Physical Fitness Test/Challenge going back to the the 1950s show that in tasks that require abdominal/core strength and flexibility - such as situps and cross-body reaches - girls perform as well as or slightly better than boys. But from the earliest ages, boys outperform girls in all other tasks in the POTUS program and other standard kinds of fitness testing - running, jumping, kicking, throwing, pushups, pull-ups, hanging from a bar by one arm, climbing a rope, using the arms to help hoist the whole body up to clear a fence or get out of a pool.
But the transmen also dramatically improved and performed comparably post therapy on pushups and running, in which elite cis men everyone agrees significantly outperform elite cis women, which suggests the effect of hormones on performance is far from easily dismissed.
”Core strength and capacity” doesn’t mean very much at all, and in most competitive events known to rely significantly on core strength including powerlifting and weightlifting etc., elite cis men outperform elite cis women even more than they do in running that also relies in (lesser) part on core strength.
I don't know much about this topic, except that trans women were authorized to compete internationally in track from 2003 until Coe banned them in 2023. 20 years and I guess people thought they would be dominating. But not one trans woman has even become world class in those 20 years, none have ever won a track medal in world champs, Diamond leagues or Olympics. None have even been good enough to even make it on any teams at the world class level. And in 20 years only 1 trans women has even made it to the running Olympic trials and in 2020 they ran in the marathon trials in the US and was she close to making am Olympic Team, nope she finished 230th in almost a 3 hr marathon ()
I've been saying this had never been about trans women because there are no world class trans women runners on earth and never have been. There is a 20 year time period to prove that. That has been a smoke screen and Seb Coe knows it. This has always been about DSD women (); they have been the ones who have been competing at the world class level and winning gold medals and breaking world distance records.
Trans women have been the scapegoat because there is a lot of hate about them now so that Coe can stop DSD women like Christine Mboma, Caster Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba and others from winning gold medals. It is interesting that all of these DSD women are black and all from Africa............... Just saying!
You know more about this topic, enough to display more wisdom than most shrill posters on here, so don’t sell yourself short with overhumility.
The idiot who wrote that piece has probably never competed in any athletic endeavor in her life. Absolutely ridiculous!
You would be floored at how little non athletic people understand the physical differences between men and women. One article in the fitness category of yahoo news can away their opinion
I don't know much about this topic, except that trans women were authorized to compete internationally in track from 2003 until Coe banned them in 2023. 20 years and I guess people thought they would be dominating. But not one trans woman has even become world class in those 20 years, none have ever won a track medal in world champs, Diamond leagues or Olympics. None have even been good enough to even make it on any teams at the world class level. And in 20 years only 1 trans women has even made it to the running Olympic trials and in 2020 they ran in the marathon trials in the US and was she close to making am Olympic Team, nope she finished 230th in almost a 3 hr marathon ()
I've been saying this had never been about trans women because there are no world class trans women runners on earth and never have been. There is a 20 year time period to prove that. That has been a smoke screen and Seb Coe knows it. This has always been about DSD women (); they have been the ones who have been competing at the world class level and winning gold medals and breaking world distance records.
Trans women have been the scapegoat because there is a lot of hate about them now so that Coe can stop DSD women like Christine Mboma, Caster Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba and others from winning gold medals. It is interesting that all of these DSD women are black and all from Africa............... Just saying!
Is there evidence that transgender women athletes have a physiological advantage?
Not according to Eric Vilain, a geneticist at the University of California, Irvine, who specializes in gender-based biology. Very little research has been published on transgender athletes, and what has been published didn’t provide enough results to create evidence-based policies, says Vilain, who does not identify as transgender. “It’s not black and white.” For example, a 2021 review found trans women’s muscle mass remains high after transitioning, but their levels of hemoglobin—the oxygen-carrying protein in blood—were comparable to cisgender women’s. Increased levels of hemoglobin facilitate more oxygen transport to muscles when active, and men tend to have higher hemoglobin than women. The lack of definitive data supports the rule, a WA spokesperson told ScienceInsider. “It is precisely because there is insufficient evidence to prove that the male advantage of male-to-female transgender athletes can be removed that World Athletics has made this decision,” the spokesperson said by email.
Is there a scientific consensus about how trans athletes actually perform compared with cisgender women?
No, Vilain says. The lab studies of athletes’ hemoglobin and muscle mass say nothing about whether trans women can run faster, jump higher, or throw farther. “You have to demonstrate that before excluding” transgender athletes, he says. A rare performance study on trans athletes, a 2015 study by Harper of eight women, found their race times slowed after transitioning from male to female, while their performance relative to sex-matched runners stayed the same. The results suggest they have no advantage over cisgender women."
Is there evidence that transgender women athletes have a physiological advantage?
Not according to Eric Vilain, a geneticist at the University of California, Irvine, who specializes in gender-based biology. Very little research has been published on transgender athletes, and what has been published didn’t provide enough results to create evidence-based policies, says Vilain, who does not identify as transgender. “It’s not black and white.” For example, a 2021 review found trans women’s muscle mass remains high after transitioning, but their levels of hemoglobin—the oxygen-carrying protein in blood—were comparable to cisgender women’s. Increased levels of hemoglobin facilitate more oxygen transport to muscles when active, and men tend to have higher hemoglobin than women. The lack of definitive data supports the rule, a WA spokesperson told ScienceInsider. “It is precisely because there is insufficient evidence to prove that the male advantage of male-to-female transgender athletes can be removed that World Athletics has made this decision,” the spokesperson said by email.
Is there a scientific consensus about how trans athletes actually perform compared with cisgender women?
No, Vilain says. The lab studies of athletes’ hemoglobin and muscle mass say nothing about whether trans women can run faster, jump higher, or throw farther. “You have to demonstrate that before excluding” transgender athletes, he says. A rare performance study on trans athletes, a 2015 study by Harper of eight women, found their race times slowed after transitioning from male to female, while their performance relative to sex-matched runners stayed the same. The results suggest they have no advantage over cisgender women."
“You have to demonstrate that before excluding”
Why? Why do they not have to prove no retained advantage before including?
Why can't men who "become" women just have integrity?
Meaning, if you were a man, can't you just stay out of womens sports? This is an issue bc we have enough shtbags who transitioned and cant leave well enough alone.
This completely ignores im putting an "integrity" label on transsexuals. Of which i think they have no integrity really, and no personal accountability.
Is there evidence that transgender women athletes have a physiological advantage?
Not according to Eric Vilain, a geneticist at the University of California, Irvine, who specializes in gender-based biology. Very little research has been published on transgender athletes, and what has been published didn’t provide enough results to create evidence-based policies, says Vilain, who does not identify as transgender. “It’s not black and white.” For example, a 2021 review found trans women’s muscle mass remains high after transitioning, but their levels of hemoglobin—the oxygen-carrying protein in blood—were comparable to cisgender women’s. Increased levels of hemoglobin facilitate more oxygen transport to muscles when active, and men tend to have higher hemoglobin than women. The lack of definitive data supports the rule, a WA spokesperson told ScienceInsider. “It is precisely because there is insufficient evidence to prove that the male advantage of male-to-female transgender athletes can be removed that World Athletics has made this decision,” the spokesperson said by email.
Is there a scientific consensus about how trans athletes actually perform compared with cisgender women?
No, Vilain says. The lab studies of athletes’ hemoglobin and muscle mass say nothing about whether trans women can run faster, jump higher, or throw farther. “You have to demonstrate that before excluding” transgender athletes, he says. A rare performance study on trans athletes, a 2015 study by Harper of eight women, found their race times slowed after transitioning from male to female, while their performance relative to sex-matched runners stayed the same. The results suggest they have no advantage over cisgender women."
“You have to demonstrate that before excluding”
Why? Why do they not have to prove no retained advantage before including?
Because it’s a self evident truth that we want a society in which the default is to include, not exclude.
Science alone is necessary but not sufficient to resolve the underlying societal and sporting policy questions.
Why can't men who "become" women just have integrity?
Meaning, if you were a man, can't you just stay out of womens sports? This is an issue bc we have enough shtbags who transitioned and cant leave well enough alone.
This completely ignores im putting an "integrity" label on transsexuals. Of which i think they have no integrity really, and no personal accountability.
You aren’t particularly coherent. But is there a reason you care about this more than you care about the homeless? Please explain.
I always find it interesting how much mental energy far left-wing people and to a certain extent their moderate liberal enablers will expend to essentially deny the most basic and obvious of truths, or as close as there can be in this world. Men are quite simply stronger and faster than women in physical terms. But because this cuts against what left wing people determined "should" be, we find ourselves engaging in an absolutely insane societal debate. Just unreal.
I always find it interesting how much mental energy far left-wing people and to a certain extent their moderate liberal enablers will expend to essentially deny the most basic and obvious of truths, or as close as there can be in this world. Men are quite simply stronger and faster than women in physical terms. But because this cuts against what left wing people determined "should" be, we find ourselves engaging in an absolutely insane societal debate. Just unreal.
That is not the debate. Why the intellectual dishonesty?
Why can't men who "become" women just have integrity?
Meaning, if you were a man, can't you just stay out of womens sports? This is an issue bc we have enough shtbags who transitioned and cant leave well enough alone.
This completely ignores im putting an "integrity" label on transsexuals. Of which i think they have no integrity really, and no personal accountability.
You aren’t particularly coherent. But is there a reason you care about this more than you care about the homeless? Please explain.
The article is actually making a very good point. Most men who want to be women are not great athletes. I know there are exceptions. But most are not.
This is a silly answer to a silly question. In my opinion a more relevant question is something like: what percentage of them are relatively more competitive when competing in races against females than they would have been if they were competing as males? The “than they would have been” part arguably makes it unanswerable, but we can get some clues by looking at performance before and after transition among the subset of performance of athletes who previously competed as males before competing as females. I don’t have the data right here, though I can guess what it would probably look like, but guessing aside, it wouldn’t be a terribly difficult study to do.
The public backlash against the two runners competing in the California Interscholastic Federation championships Friday and Saturday hinges on assumptions that both athletes are transgender, based in part on them having run on boys’ teams in previous seasons.
But neither girl has identified publicly as transgender, and it’s not known if they are currently or have ever taken hormone-suppressing drugs. And they shouldn’t have to reveal that information, say experts in sports medicine and biology, along with trans rights advocates.
This is the best bit I think, as an example of the author's attempt to dupe and appeal to the intellectually feeble. Now it's just an "assumption" that the athletes are transgender, based on the extremely shaky evidence of them having run as boys in the previous seasons! And "experts in sports medicine and biology" (who shall remain nameless), say that they shouldn't have to reveal whether they take or have ever took, hormone suppressing drugs.
No one should have to reveal that they are taking PED's either. It's up to WADA to find the cheaters.
I always find it interesting how much mental energy far left-wing people and to a certain extent their moderate liberal enablers will expend to essentially deny the most basic and obvious of truths, or as close as there can be in this world. Men are quite simply stronger and faster than women in physical terms. But because this cuts against what left wing people determined "should" be, we find ourselves engaging in an absolutely insane societal debate. Just unreal.
That is not the debate. Why the intellectual dishonesty?
You are not equipped to assess the intellectual capacity of anything much. You are merely another unthinking ideologue.
That is not the debate. Why the intellectual dishonesty?
You are not equipped to assess the intellectual capacity of anything much. You are merely another unthinking ideologue.
Idiot I schooled you earlier and now your fellow idiot too. No surprise that you idiots would think alike. So tired of dealing with your sluggish minds.
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