When do Kipchoge’s performances become too incredible and suspicious?

He did not do his hardest marathon training though. There's a difference.

I am old but I am not aging "normally". It's not set in stone. Certainly I felt amazing when I was Kipchoge's age and even older.

Jon is immune to alcohol. His body will not allow the disturbance of homeostasis. Do you even Entropy?

While it is probably a level playing field with respect to PEDs, I don't think that is the case with the shoes. Although elites get the latest super shoes from their sponsors they probably don't get highly customised shoes. I would suspect that Kipchoge gets shoes that are customised for his weight, stride length, footfall and flexure. He is the ultimate lab rat for Nike.

If you consider just the carbon plate. There are 17 shoe sizes from size 7 to size 15. I doubt there are 17 sizes of carbon plate. Probably just three, two of which may be just filed down from the largest. If the design sizes are size 8, 11 and 14 then unless you are one of those sizes you will be running on a show with a plate that is either larger or smaller than optimal.

Kipchoge could well be getting shoes with carbon plates in them that are specifically designed for his weight and running style. It is even possible that the plate in the left shoe is slightly different to the one in the right shoe to adjust for any imbalance in his style.

The difference between Sunday's race time and the time four years ago is just 0.4%. It could well be any decline through age is more than matched by improvements in customising his shoes.

here's my logic:

every person who holds a WR is a cheater because they're beating people who are known cheats but still unable to obtain the WR

and also because this, it is likely that every WR holder would still hold the WR if cheats didn't exist because they would "proportionally" be slower alongside all the other cheats.

so yeah, cheat or not, guys like usain bolt, rudisha, hicham, or kipchoge would likely still dominate their events if PEDs didn't exist.

one thing to note though. lots of people talked about how kipchoge faked his age when he was a young guy but if this was true, then it would make him even more impressive as he would be well into his 40s now while breaking WRs in the marathon.

Kipchoge isn't happy with people saying Bekele is still better than him. Once he retires from the marathon he'll return to the grass to dominate the cross country championships into his 50s!

Pretty much this. It doesn't matter to me if he's natty or not because he'd still be the goat in a world where everyone cheats and a world where nobody does. I see zero point in thinking about this topic. It's like trying to find the fastest marathon runner that doesn't wear carbon shoes. If you're so interested go volunteer for WADA otherwise you're wasting your own time.

World records should be run in non super shoes for them to count. Find a balance to past records and decide what shoe must be worn. It's like the full body wetsuits in swimming that they banned. It's ridiculous. What did Steve Jones wear in Chicago? Let's see what happens, then. I'm serious.

I don't get the obsession with shoes when criticizing the records, all elite athletes are wearing the same shoes anyway, why would you want to prevent technological advancement in the sport? Where do you draw the line? Should all athletes run barefoot again?

you can figure out who was faster with some simple comparisons between the athletes, shoes, and running performance over time. kipchoge would still likely be the fastest marathoner in the pre-super shoe era.

also, people of the past already won their medals, made their money, and enjoyed their glory during their time. who cares if their records got broken due to technological advancement in shoes? restrictions to such advancements would be in insult to the guys who spend years studying in school just to not use their abilities to improve the world in some way, shape, or form. it's not like kenenisa bekele gets paid every year that he still holds the 10000m record.

You may feel "amazing" but you are still aging. It doesn't just suddenly start happening some time in your distant future, after decades of eternal youth. Biologically, it began some time in your late twenties. Training may only compensate for some of its effects but it won't reverse them.

If Kipchoge was training to the highest level when he was running track from his teens, then how is he able to train even harder for the marathon from his late twenties? I read previously that he was supposedly "pacing" himself ('scuse the pun) better this past decade so that he wouldn't wear out. That isn't training harder. That's responding to aging.

Wow, I just lost a lot of brain cells reading through that. Trollspotting and HRE, please find some hobbies.

It's basically like Lance Armstrong and how he was so dominant. But, I think cyclists have longer careers than marathon runners. Kipchoge is an outlier we will never see again. No injuries, never dropped a race, and world records from him are almost a given. He's not invincible either though like losing to Kipsang, first breaking2, clogged ear balance issues in London. Suspicious? Certainly. His performances are above and beyond what anyone thought a human was capable of. But, his performances inspire average people like me to wake up everyday and go for a run. Lance Armstrong did the same thing for me when I was younger. I made a poster about him and how he was my hero. Kinda funny looking back. I learned a valuable lesson though. Life isn't fair. Sometimes the best cheater wins.

Disagree. I was peaking in my 30s and everything pointed to no degradation. You just can't say everyone ages and peaks the same.

Kipchoge isn't necessarily training harder now. He's likely training as hard but doing different training while he does this.

So you neither know the difference between ret-% and hct, nor that she wasn't at altitude at the time.

But trolls gotta troll, right?

I'm asking if it was a typo?

What is your interest in hematology?

It's hard to compare Eliud to others because he's doing things no one's done before. Confirmed dopers haven't been able to do what he does or have the same longevity.

No, you can't go beyond your limits. This concept is hopelessly naïve. It's not how your body works.

There is nothing about Kipchoge's physiology that is exceptional. He has been tested by Professor Andy Jones who found that his oxygen uptake was the same as millions of other runnerd bit he was very efficient at 21kmh.

This stuff is simple to understand, but everyone arguing here has been misinformed about basic physiology and has no desire to learn. The PED beliefs are set in stone to them.

I think the problem with these types of threads and these drug fanatics is that they don't know any elite athletes, so they fill in the blanks with fantasy.

But your logic is dumb. The fact that zero non-Africans were in the top 33 1500m runners in the EPO era, compared to 12 from 6 different non-African countries in the last 4 years, suggests your logic is dumb as F. Why do we have a white 1500m Olympic Champion, and a white 1500m World Champion, when 20 years ago, such a thing was close to absurd, and it was widely accepted that 'now the Africans were competing' the best of them were 2 or 3 seconds faster than the very best non-Africans (ie. Coe, Cram etc), and non-Africans would never sniff a gold medal again?