It’s not new. After my G.I. Bill was used up I got student loans. 1972. After teaching at Napa State Hospital Adolescent lockup wards for 4 yrs my loan was forgiven with an addendum explaining that the waiver was in recognition of valued service in Social and educational services. Aren’t there some good reasons for loan forgiveness? Not so b&w as many portray it?
Probably all good points. If...we are going to forgive loans, we are implicitly saying that education is out of control cost wise. So we need to fix that end. People should be able to go their public XYZ state University and not pay 30 grand a year for the love of pete. I borrowed 8K for undergrad, good investment seems reasonable. But unless you are rich, you aint getting through something like Med school without 100-300K in loans from shady folks. (servicers I should say). Even undergrad at a state college is 100k without grants or scholarships. That aint good for anyone. I can almost see if you choose to go out of state, but even in-state universities, public universities are 25-30k a year. That's not what we intended with state schools.
Probably all good points. If...we are going to forgive loans, we are implicitly saying that education is out of control cost wise. So we need to fix that end. People should be able to go their public XYZ state University and not pay 30 grand a year for the love of pete. I borrowed 8K for undergrad, good investment seems reasonable. But unless you are rich, you aint getting through something like Med school without 100-300K in loans from shady folks. (servicers I should say). Even undergrad at a state college is 100k without grants or scholarships. That aint good for anyone. I can almost see if you choose to go out of state, but even in-state universities, public universities are 25-30k a year. That's not what we intended with state schools.
!! Somebody dropped a stitch in his thread! Not only did I not write any of that stuff, butI wouldn’t say “for the love of Pete” if my life depended on it! 😳
Joe you really are blowing it here. Canceling $10,000 worth of student debt per borrower? You just look silly. This is the type of thing which encourages irresponsibility. You blew it Joe.
The white house is upset at losing HarryR’s support and being at the wrong end of his trenchant criticism of executive policy, and Joe personally responds with “Come on man”.
The explosion of college debt is a serious problem. Reducing some of that burden on students isn't a bad thing, especially as more and more of the employment world wants some college on the resume.
Forgiveness by itself can't be the full solution, though. If you forgive some (let alone all) of student debt without controlling the cost of education, you're just encouraging colleges to increase their fees even more. They've already been outpacing inflation for decades.
So, how about this...pair loan forgiveness with restrictions on the rate of tuition and fees growth that colleges are allowed to implement without consequences.
Example: Higher ed institutions may not increase tuition and fees more than the overall amount of national inflation in the previous year. If they violate this, they are removed from the list of institutions for which students are eligible to have their debt forgiven. Students vote with their wallets and the offending schools are robbed of much of their potential talent.
Colleges are run by big business. Every college's board and dean is full of ex-CEO types. If you restrict their ability to get funding from students, they are going to take a huge sh%t on students by cutting profs in favor of TAs and having all classes be 1500+ people held in concert halls and sports arenas.
Higher ed is extremely expensive in the US primarily because state government funding for higher ed has dropped precipitously over the past 40-50 years thanks to anti-tax advocates who have slashed state government budgets in order to reduce taxes.
The secondary cause of the explosion in tuition has been competition among schools to bring in students. As tuition goes up, students become very selective consumers. When I went to college in the late 1980s early 90s, state schools were cheap and you got what you paid for. Dorms were awful, food was crappy and the facilities were minimal. But students just moved like cattle from their public HS to the big state U in their state and did not consider going out of state. As tuition got more expensive, state schools started competing for out of state students. They did this in two ways. First, they improved facilities with nice new dorms, student centers, fancy gyms, lazy rivers, and fancy new buildings. Second, they started recruiting expensive celebrity faculty and establishing very expensive research institutes to attract students interested in computer science, engineering, medicine etc. The latter actually became a bit of a necessity as private industry learned that it did not have to provide college grads any sort of career development/training if they could get colleges to offer the same sort of training disguised as a masters program tied to a research institute. My dad graduated from MIT in the early 1960s and went to work at Raytheon in a research lab that worked on radar and laser guidance systems. It was like a graduate program with the new college grads divided up into groups who worked with a senior researcher on various projects while being taught advanced research techniques and physics. Today, you would have to do a Phd to get that kind of experience and possibly do post doc work.
The answer to higher education funding is to fund it and not force all the cost on to students. States and the federal government need to fund higher education so that tuition is a nominal burden on students.
The problem is that such extensive funding isn't sustainable on the backs of taxpayers at the rates that colleges would prefer to be paid (taking into account continuing faster-than-inflation increases). So if throttling their revenue will result in taking a crap on students, then those students will necessarily be crapped on regardless of the style of government regulation or subsidy that causes it.
Perhaps, in the aftermath of it all, there will still be some schools that can figure out how to put out a quality product that does well at educating its students - which is, after all, what this should all be about to begin with. Luxurious amenities are merely a bonus for those that are already well-heeled.
I have supported almost all of Biden's bills so far but not this one. There are irresponsible decisions that cause kids to graduate with serious debt. From my experience, kids from poor families get a free ride so this doesn't involve them. The kids who CHOOSE outrageously expensive private schools, were irresponsible. We shouldn't reinforce that behavior and stiff those who were more careful with their decisions by giving them nothing.
If the interest rates were too high, the government can make the loans interest free as a help.
This issue is classic small picture thinking by those who who think this is a travesty of justice. Classic poke yourself in the eye thinking. I can see why you might be tweaked. My parents used to complain endlessly about having to pay taxes that benefit the public schools, since they no longer have a kid in public school! But think bigger. Society has over and over again proven to benefit the most from education. Countries around the world have shown this as well. To the extent it should be free in the first place (which benefits everyone) and considering the well established corruption of loan servicers (who have since changed their name, a la philip morris) one can easily see yourself clear to accept such a paltry forgiveness as 10K, let alone during a pandemic that has devastated people and economies. Kind of makes sense now right? It just doesn't make sense to be outraged. You benefit from people who go to school to be engineers, doctors, teachers...I myself have paid back 200K in loans. Did it really need to cost me 200K to heal the sick? Meh, seems counterproductive for society. Maybe college doesnt have to be free like it is elsewhere, but maybe we are on the wrong track when just getting educated becomes a major money making industry. It takes time and effort to become an electrician, but not 100K + in loans from smarmy loan servicers to do so. Dont be so outraged about things that benefit you everyday (aka, my mantra for libertarians)!
You make a number of assumptions about my thinking that are quite wrong to make. I think, ironically considering your post, you are guilty of small picture thinking. I am 100 percent behind education. This $10,000 grant is little picture thinking that solves nothing and attempts to address an issue with a one time meat clever chop instead of well thought out fair planning. It also doesn't reinforce smart consumer planning when selecting educational options, it does the opposite. It also doesn't motivate colleges to take steps to reduce their costs. It doesn't motivate banks from charging excessive interest rates to students. And what about all the students graduating in the next ten years should each student receive 10 grand to reduce loans? How about a frugal hardworking student who doesn't have a loan, should he get nothing?
Let address systemic problems with higher education costs and loans. But this is a one shot feel good move that creates the type of incentives that actually may make the problem worse.
You are not smart enough to know what I think, as you have just demonstrated.
You have already stated it. Checkmate. It is over. I am a Democrat who thinks at a level you cannot reach so you reflexively label me a liar because you cannot fathom someone who is not a sheep like you.
Where have I stated it? Do you regular experience voices in your head?
This issue is classic small picture thinking by those who who think this is a travesty of justice. Classic poke yourself in the eye thinking. I can see why you might be tweaked. My parents used to complain endlessly about having to pay taxes that benefit the public schools, since they no longer have a kid in public school! But think bigger. Society has over and over again proven to benefit the most from education. Countries around the world have shown this as well. To the extent it should be free in the first place (which benefits everyone) and considering the well established corruption of loan servicers (who have since changed their name, a la philip morris) one can easily see yourself clear to accept such a paltry forgiveness as 10K, let alone during a pandemic that has devastated people and economies. Kind of makes sense now right? It just doesn't make sense to be outraged. You benefit from people who go to school to be engineers, doctors, teachers...I myself have paid back 200K in loans. Did it really need to cost me 200K to heal the sick? Meh, seems counterproductive for society. Maybe college doesnt have to be free like it is elsewhere, but maybe we are on the wrong track when just getting educated becomes a major money making industry. It takes time and effort to become an electrician, but not 100K + in loans from smarmy loan servicers to do so. Dont be so outraged about things that benefit you everyday (aka, my mantra for libertarians)!
You make a number of assumptions about my thinking that are quite wrong to make. I think, ironically considering your post, you are guilty of small picture thinking. I am 100 percent behind education. This $10,000 grant is little picture thinking that solves nothing and attempts to address an issue with a one time meat clever chop instead of well thought out fair planning. It also doesn't reinforce smart consumer planning when selecting educational options, it does the opposite. It also doesn't motivate colleges to take steps to reduce their costs. It doesn't motivate banks from charging excessive interest rates to students. And what about all the students graduating in the next ten years should each student receive 10 grand to reduce loans? How about a frugal hardworking student who doesn't have a loan, should he get nothing?
Let address systemic problems with higher education costs and loans. But this is a one shot feel good move that creates the type of incentives that actually may make the problem worse.
You have already stated it. Checkmate. It is over. I am a Democrat who thinks at a level you cannot reach so you reflexively label me a liar because you cannot fathom someone who is not a sheep like you.
Where have I stated it? Do you regularly experience voices in your head?
This is true sometimes, but most of the time it’s false. I lived in a nice Chicago suburb whose population is currently 150,000 and in Baltimore. Property taxes were similar, but it’s less annoying to pay them if you have great public schools (some of the best in Illinois and even the nation), good public services, a safe downtown, and basically no crime. On the other hand, for the same amount in taxes, in Baltimore you get the basically the worst public schools in the country (77% of high schoolers read at an elementary level, 41% of people at one school had below a 1.0 GPA, many schools in which not ONE student is reading at grade level, etc), abysmal roads and public services, insane amounts of crime, and a downtown you can’t go to without being harassed.
My taxes were basically equal in both places, but guess which feels worse to pay. I’ll give you a hint: it has the 3rd most spending per student in the nation and the 2nd highest murder rate.
This issue is classic small picture thinking by those who who think this is a travesty of justice. Classic poke yourself in the eye thinking. I can see why you might be tweaked. My parents used to complain endlessly about having to pay taxes that benefit the public schools, since they no longer have a kid in public school! But think bigger. Society has over and over again proven to benefit the most from education. Countries around the world have shown this as well. To the extent it should be free in the first place (which benefits everyone) and considering the well established corruption of loan servicers (who have since changed their name, a la philip morris) one can easily see yourself clear to accept such a paltry forgiveness as 10K, let alone during a pandemic that has devastated people and economies. Kind of makes sense now right? It just doesn't make sense to be outraged. You benefit from people who go to school to be engineers, doctors, teachers...I myself have paid back 200K in loans. Did it really need to cost me 200K to heal the sick? Meh, seems counterproductive for society. Maybe college doesnt have to be free like it is elsewhere, but maybe we are on the wrong track when just getting educated becomes a major money making industry. It takes time and effort to become an electrician, but not 100K + in loans from smarmy loan servicers to do so. Dont be so outraged about things that benefit you everyday (aka, my mantra for libertarians)!
You make a number of assumptions about my thinking that are quite wrong to make. I think, ironically considering your post, you are guilty of small picture thinking. I am 100 percent behind education. This $10,000 grant is little picture thinking that solves nothing and attempts to address an issue with a one time meat clever chop instead of well thought out fair planning. It also doesn't reinforce smart consumer planning when selecting educational options, it does the opposite. It also doesn't motivate colleges to take steps to reduce their costs. It doesn't motivate banks from charging excessive interest rates to students. And what about all the students graduating in the next ten years should each student receive 10 grand to reduce loans? How about a frugal hardworking student who doesn't have a loan, should he get nothing?
Let address systemic problems with higher education costs and loans. But this is a one shot feel good move that creates the type of incentives that actually may make the problem worse.
We can do better.
But it is essentially an illegal post-facto pass through gift to an industry that votes almost 100% Democrat.
Granny Martini even said POTUS has no authority to cancel student loan debt.
Biden’s obscene student loan scheme forcing the middle class, working class and poor to foot the bill for other people’s college “education” is economically disastrous, politically suicidal, and morally odious
I don’t know what is Biden’s plan so this might be in it.
Why not offer a community service jjob for students with debt to pay up $10,000 instead of forgive it.
And then also have funding for public colleges with rules that if colleges accept the funding, the schools are required to not raise tuition costs or maybe must reduce costs.
(Full disclosure. I've read only the OP's post - nothing else).
I don't get why the cancelling student debt triggers people so much. If someone else wins the lottery, why should we be upset? I mean the govt already gives $7,500 to every rich person buying an electric car.
College is already wildely unaffordable. Govt never should have backed many of these loans to begin with.
I'm triggered because I don't like paying for other people's irresponsible behavior. I paid off my student loans as soon as I could after college by foregoing new cars and vacations to put the money towards paying off my debt. I then volunteered to go in harm's way with the military by which I EARNED GI Bill benefits that I used to pay for post-graduate education. I then scrimped and saved and did without new cars, vacations, and the like to build college funds for my children so they did not need to go into debt for their education. I sacrificed for my family, I don't want to sacrifice for the irresponsible behavior of other families, particularly those that have been spending their money on vacations and other luxuries. People should pay for their own lifestyle.
It took me a long time to pay off my student loans, they had tripled in size because I defaulted on them, now I have to pay off the loans of others who I don't even know.
It took me a long time to pay off my student loans, they had tripled in size because I defaulted on them, now I have to pay off the loans of others who I don't even know.
Took me awhile to pull myself up by my boot straps too but I’m not gonna cry about it on an internet message board.
The problem with student loan forgiveness is that it is not sustainable. Are we going to forgive loans every 10 years? You have to fix the problem of runaway university costs first and stabilize the prices going forward and then you can consider loan forgiveness. The problem is, the reason we have such high costs for schooling is because of the government. Loans are handed out too easily.
The problem with student loan forgiveness is that it is not sustainable. Are we going to forgive loans every 10 years? You have to fix the problem of runaway university costs first and stabilize the prices going forward and then you can consider loan forgiveness. The problem is, the reason we have such high costs for schooling is because of the government. Loans are handed out too easily.
Base miles that’s some valid information. As a bi-sexual non binary straight white male who votes both Republican and Democrat I cannot say otherwise other than I agree with everyone. I am trying to cast the widest net possible to get up votes.
Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win a LetsRun t-shirt.Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win one of 10 LetsRun t-shirts.